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SHTF loaner gun for inexperienced people

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Tokugawa, Apr 29, 2006.

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  1. Tokugawa

    Tokugawa Member

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    Assume there is a major disruption in civil life aka katrina, king riots, etc. You have a lot of non gunowning friends who all of a sudden realize they are at the mercy of the mob, looters, etc.
    What sort of gun would be useful to have laying around to lend them. Nothing fancy, just a tool. My first thought was a cheap Mosin or mauser but the noise and muzzle blast would be really intimidating to a non experienced person. Less than $100 would be good. SKS? Single shot 12 gauge? 10/22?
    Your thoughts please. Figure you have very little time to train them to keep from shooting themselves. Is this a bad idea? Maybe give them a baseball bat instead?
     
  2. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Loaner

    Single-shot 20 gauge...Cut the barrel off to 20-22 inches. Pretty sure that 3-inch/#1 buckshot is available.
     
  3. Croyance

    Croyance Member

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    There are all sorts of problems if people have no time to learn and no base from which to figure out what you are saying.
    Any effective gun will be intimidating to somebody who has never shot.
    Remember, under stress, even police with yearly qualifications forget to work a pump action.
    At that point, cost will not be a concern, as you will only have your own stock.
    A Model 10, they can be had beat up at gun shows. It is heavy for a .38 Special, a medium frame. Make sure the damage is purely cosmetic though.
     
  4. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    I believe that Kurt Russel's response to "friends" who asked to borrow guns during the Rodney King riot was pretty close to spot on: "I'm sorry. They're all being used right now."

    When the s is on the way to the fan, it's too late to realize you oughta buy a gun, and I'd have profound questions about the judgement of such frightened, panicy folks, unless I knew them really, really well.

    For folks I know and trust, I'd think shotguns, pistol caliber carbines, or maybe even AR/AK/SKS would be in order.
     
  5. Hemicuda

    Hemicuda member

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    if it takes a disaster for them to see the light, it's already too late... sorry, i won't have either the time or inclination to teach them... they are on their sorry-butted own... they shoulda done something about it before the feces hits the rotatoinal-ossilator...
     
  6. Kodiaz

    Kodiaz member

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    If they don't know how to use a gun they are better off without one.


    If you have some neighbor's or friends that you care enough about to purchase a spare firearm. Do them and yourself a favor get them to a range and show them how to safely and effectively use a firearm.


    With some rare exceptions I "think" most people that know how to use firearms will have one.

    Granted this is only what I think and what I think is worth about as much as a politician's promises.
     
  7. joab

    joab Member

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    I would not go out of my way to have a gun around just in case the unprepared suddenly see the error of their ways.

    But if I had to choose one it would be an old Marlin 60 that you can get from a pawn shop for less than $50

    Training is their problem.
    I won't have time, I'll be scrounging for that generator that I kept putting off buying
     
  8. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    People need to prepare themselves for trouble before trouble arrives.
     
  9. lee n. field

    lee n. field Member

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    Give them baseball bats.

    All they know about guns they learned from TeeVee. They'll be pointing it every which way, with their finger on the trigger all the time. The first time they actually shoot it, the noise will rattle them badly. A disaster waiting to happen.
     
  10. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    Nope. Maybe they can come and cook at Compound Zeanah, but I'm not arming someone untrained on short notice.
     
  11. Texas Moon

    Texas Moon Member

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    If you really wanted to, keep a couple/three of El Cheapo single shot shotguns around.
    Something like an NEF or H&R in 12 gauge. Keep a few boxes of cheap bird shot for each gun.
    They can be broken down and stored easily.
    Not a lot of cash to get into them.
    These are very easy for non-gunnies to learn to use quickly.
    These guns are pretty much bullet proof and don't require much(if any) maintnance.
     
  12. aaronrkelly

    aaronrkelly Member

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    I would have to think long and hard about arming someone that had NO gun experience.

    But lets take a real world person I know. My best friend Mitch......he doesnt own any guns but has shot his dads 12 ga with me busting a few clays. We also shot at some spinning targets with a .22 Marlin (also his dads).

    He doesnt own any guns and I only was out with him for 2 hours (and the only 2 hours he ever shot a gun to boot)....but he was safe and clearly grasped the concept. Hes a very mechanical person to start with.

    Him I would hand a 12 ga pump shotgun (or single shot) and/or a revolver without batting an eye. If I had an hour or so for a quick lesson I suspect I would feel safe handing him almost anything. The basis for good gun handling he mostly has......
     
  13. BigG

    BigG Member

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    I agree with the Kurt Russell approach; also the guys who pointed out waiting to learn about guns until you NEED to use them is too late.
     
  14. FXR

    FXR Member

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    I'm kinda with the rest of the posters in that I'm not too sympathetic to those who won't buy a gun in advance of "excitement." Also, giving a gun to someone who's never fired one before and simulaneously under the stress of a crisis situation is *really* asking for more trouble rather than solving a problem.

    Given, that, if I absolutely had to arm someone who is known to be inexperienced and only marginally trustworthy (a great leap of faith, I admit), then I'd lean toward a single-shot shotgun, probably 20 gauge. I'd give them one shotshell for the chamber and a couple for their pocket and that's it. Make sure they had birdshot and not slugs.

    Paraphrasing Cooper, such an armed person must be taken seriously enough to slow down a determined adversary but won't pose an undue threat to known friendlies.

    Still, that's a last choice. I'd rather associate with those who think ahead. I can even accept caliber disagreements, as long as they bring their own ammo!
    K
     
  15. MrTwigg

    MrTwigg Member

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    I'd have to say no. Armed people with zero experience will not be getting their hands on my guns. Much too dangerous.

    If I had a chance to get them to the range a couple of times to be sure they aren't going to shoot themsevles (Or me !) , then it's a different story.
     
  16. rbernie
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    rbernie Member

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    Maybe I'm a schmuck, but I can think of a few mature, empty-nest neighbors that I'm pretty sure aren't armed at present but whom I'd trust with a simple point-n-click firearm. If they asked for something, I'd give 'em one of my SKSs with a magazine full of Barnaul SPs.
     
  17. bubbygator

    bubbygator Member

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    Gee, I read this a little differently. Like, my daughter & son-in-law & 3 boys are not gun people; but when SHTF, I will take them into my safe-keeping... with what could I best arm these dear and trusted people such that they could contribute to our mutual defense??

    I will have stocked 9mm, .357/.38, .22, 12GA, & .410 (for squirrels, etc.). I think perhaps a Ruger PC-9 & a SxS for the man, a .22 auto pistol (Browning?) for the wife, & .22 auto rifles (10-22?) for the 2 oldest boys. It's not that I would depend on the woman & boys for killing effectiveness, but for covering/harassing fire.

    ????
     
  18. sm

    sm member

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    Like 1911Tuner...

    Single shot shotguns. These are great buys used at garage sales, estate sales and pawn shops. The H&R /NEF 20 ga Youth model I use, tosses some of the best patterns and slug groups from its fixed modified barrel. PC and short , even has a pretty good recoil pad. Why whack a gun for a truck gun, to make shorter and no choke, when one can buy a PC bone stock gun for a C Note that tosses great patterns and chokes.

    Now, you folks do realize trained persons do sometimes lose guns / cannot access gun due to floods, tornados, fires or whatnot?

    Neighborly is having Single shot shotguns and ammo to give out to assist. Kind of like having spare blankets, candles, cans of soup...

    BTDT and Preacherman and a few others know Mums the Word ;)

    Be kinda nice if a tornado come thru, you are at work, long guns at home and only a CCW (if that) and a single shot .410 with slugs tossed your way as well...no power, dark, alarm does not work of course...Gets you by until someone arrives to bring a lever action or Pump shotgun to help you babsit...

    I was doing some assisting in a business, this guy had no guns in store. I was the only person CCW-ing. A customer runs to his car, and brought in a single shot .410 and slugs, his kids gun. His wife got worried, no phones, called her brother to check as she knew he was supposed to be at this business. Brother brought Pump shotguns, and Lever action rifles. 4 of us kept watch, sent the others to the back near the walk in vault until power restored.

    Been on both sides of this scenerio, given out and accepted.
     
  19. Kodiaz

    Kodiaz member

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    Now handing a gun person a firearm because their's was lost or damaged is a whole other story. That would be a really decent thing to do. I have an 870 p just for that purpose.


    Baseball bats are the perfect weapon for nongunnies.

    It would suck like hell to hand someone a single shot 20 ga. with buck and then get shot in the back by their ND.
     
  20. bogie

    bogie Member

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    I think I have enough boomsticks to pretty much arm my little subdivision, but out here in the far-burbs, pretty much everyone is a deer hunter.

    As for the folks who aren't experienced, and you're expecting bad craziness (i.e., mob from city is approaching, and they've been looting the bejeezus out of things...), I've got enough quick set epoxy, yard tool handles, and kitchen knives to produce a buncha pikes...

    That reminds me... It's time to take up archery...
     
  21. Croyance

    Croyance Member

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    Funny thing is that it takes a stress situation for people to figure out what their real beliefs are. Like all those people against the death penalty until some really bad criminal is caught.

    It isn't that I have no sympathy for those who didn't prepare themselves. Its just that some of these people really, really freak out. Which is dangerous to themselves and any random passer-by.

    Actually, I'm with the poster who said they could bunker up. Safety in numbers, watches, pooled resources. Plus they could be taught, if there is time, how to use a simple weapon. Might take the Barney Fife approach though.
     
  22. akodo

    akodo Member

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    Seems to me the smarter answer would be 'come on in, cover the east wall with bobby, yiou can leave any time you want, but the gun stays here'

    First off, there is going to be a whole gammut of differing gun knowledge. Lots of 40 and 50 year olds around here grew up in more rural areas, and have shot guns before, just not for a long time. Take my own family (and I am not near 40) Grew up on a farm, didn't do much hunting but the boys each had a .22, and access to 20 and 12 guage shotguns, did some shooting, etc. Currently, we plink every thanksgiving that the weather allows as a family, but my brother doesn't currently own any firearms. I'd sure as hell loan him one, and if I find out one of my neighbors is basically the same (grew up shooting, just not political about it, basically neutral on the issue until trouble arouse) I'd have no problem offering a loaner (although I would probably sell it for 1$ and ask for it to be sold back but realize it may disappear)

    As far as handguns, yea, a 38 revolver is going to be a good choice. As far as rifles and shotguns, I'd think an old boltgun would be wonderful, first choice. 2nd would be single shot, then lever/semiauto/pump. It's been my experience that most people who have been exposed to very few firearms have usually been exposed to a bolt action .22 at some time.

    Shotguns, a single or double, followed by a bolt action, then a pump.

    I have made this comment before, but at least around here, you go to a gunstore that sells used, it is old marlin or sears-robuck bolt action 12s and 20s and 16s even that are selling for $50-75, whereas 12 guage pumps of even worse quality are usually tagged $110
     
  23. matt9052

    matt9052 Member

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    I have thought about this situation. If something happened, I would probably have to be the one that would leave to find help. This would leave my wife or in longer time periods, several other relatives in charge. I know they aren't good shots or very experienced. I would need something simple. I was thinking my SKS. It is easy to operate, less recoil than a shotgun, and also has a large and imtimidating bayonet on it. It would be better to use a shotgun with buckshot in a close quarters situation, but I order to be effective, it would have to be a 12 or 20 gauge which has a lot of recoil. My AR has a larger magazine and also a very imtimidating bayonet but is a lot more complicated. A .22 doesn't have enough firepower. I might consider a pistol but in a small caliber(.40S&W or less which I don't have).
     
  24. preWWWIIbuff

    preWWWIIbuff Member

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    SHTF

    My own thought is if SHTF then I have my group of friends that know.
    I have picked up *for parts only:evil: all of the sks I can.
    I find the sks to be not only easy to use soft on recoil, that with very little In
    the way of lessons to use:cool: The controls are about as straght forward as anything on the market...yes and the guns stay here.
    this is not to say that is all I have ...just have more than 1 parts :neener:sks extra..
    SCHMIDT K31 7.5X55
    WIN MOD 70 30.06
    REM MOD 81 300 SAVAGE I love take downs who did that design.
    ruger 10/22 target fixed it up good
    Browning a5 just love those John Brownings
    plus a few others
    plus a few others
    plus a.........
     
  25. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    Ruger Single-Six with .22 mag cylinder.
     
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