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SHTF Rifle Poll

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by 50caliber123, Sep 12, 2006.

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SHTF emergency rifle you use

  1. AK variant 7.62x39

    31.6%
  2. AR variant 5.556x45

    42.0%
  3. HK-91/FAL clones

    9.2%
  4. M1/M1A

    17.1%
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  1. 50caliber123

    50caliber123 Member

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    What do you guys use? I officially adopted the AK variants after rejecting the century arms Cetme. I keep an SKS as well, because the 7.62x39 is the perfect round for any civil unrest/shtf situation, short or long term. Far more durable and cheaper than an AR, important to me as I am a college student. My best friend kept his Cetme, so I scrambled and found a navy arms jungle carbine in .308 for ammo commonality between our fire team, keeping different calibers down to a minimum
     
  2. possum

    possum Member

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    I voted ar, just because they are so adaptable for various uses,. bi-pod no bi-pod, flashlights, night vision, Ir, and all that good stuff. One rifle can be used in almost any scenario that you would find yourself in. Just my opinion though.
     
  3. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    What kind of SHTF? That term is so broad and general.


    Right now, I have a Colt 6520 for SHTF. But in my view, SHTF is going to be a post-hurricane disaster or other such natural disaster, a riot, a terror attack that brings about a short-term chaos/panic/looting, and of course - a home invasion.


    IF I were to include fighting a tyrannical government, participating in an insurgency against occupiers, participating in a civil war or revolution etc into my firearm strategy...then I'd move up in cartridge most likely to the 7.62x39mm AK platform or possibly to .308 in the form of a FAL or M1A. That kind of SHTF requires offensive (rather than only defensive) uses also, and that might include attacking/ambushing vehicles, buildings and other such positions where a little extra punch might come in handy.


    ALL that being said, since I don't plan on latter stuff happening...the AR with .223 is plenty, plenty of gun.
     
  4. Manedwolf

    Manedwolf member

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    I think you've seen "Red Dawn" too many times. :rolleyes:

    If it came to that, engaging in that sort of foolishness would get you immediately killed from ten directions at once by trained people with superior equipment who operate in well-praticed squads. (and who would then laugh at you) The only way that a superior, trained paramilitary force could be impacted by non-suicidal civilians would be by single-shot longrange sniping, I think.
     
  5. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    I think you missed the point. :(
     
  6. Lonestar.45

    Lonestar.45 Member

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    Well, I'd disagree with that. The Soviets were driven out of Afghanistan by what amounted to civilians on horseback using the same tactics Don't Tread on Me described in his post. Ambushes and hit and run attacks. But I digress.

    For SHTF I've got two SKS, an AK, and once I get an upper, an AR-15. Of course, the Mosins and other bolt actions could be used too. It all depends on ammo availability. Short term, with my stock, I'd grab the AK.
     
  7. Technosavant

    Technosavant Member

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    Exactly. Ditto the VC and the US Army. The losses will be higher on the part of untrained partisans/insurgents/etc., but it is possible to defeat a better trained and better equipped foe.

    As for me, all I have is a SKS. I'll eventually go AK, but an AK is in spot #3 on my list of guns to buy, and who knows- by the time I get to that point, I might go AR. But either way, it's a couple years off.
     
  8. 2400

    2400 Member

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    Where's the bolt action option?
     
  9. 50caliber123

    50caliber123 Member

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    sorry, I listed options for self-loaders only, thinking that a bolt gun is a last resort, desperation, or loaner. For true SHTF, I want my finest rifle with the most firepower
     
  10. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    Er - what about AK- variant .223?
     
  11. bclark1

    bclark1 member

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    AR for me, but that's only because M1's in the same condition (brand spankin new with updated furniture etc.) as my AR are cost prohibitive.
     
  12. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Member

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    I'm not sure I like that list.

    I see three types of SHTF:
    1) "Lost in the woods..." for whatever reason (disease, earthquake, massive storms, etc.) you are cut off from normal supplies and may not be high on anyone's priority list for a while. That's a fairly big risk if you live in the mountains or desert actually, because a storm or landslide can leave you stuck in the boonies with no support and nobody will notice for days. It is possible you'll need a firearm to defend against predators or fellow travelers with no moral code, or as a signaling device, or to shop for groceries. A hunting rifle would be perfect for this scenario.

    2) "Temporary break-down of authority..." the big example around here would be the LA riots in the early 90s... the Police Chief actually had the cluelessness to get on TV and say "our biggest priority is the safety of our officers." ... of course, because of that cowardice and general mismanagement from the top down, there were days where the only pockets of law and order were those pockets created by store owners with rifles on top of their stores, scientologists with baseball bats standing around their buildings, and so on. People with courage and something to defend. In that scenario a .22LR would be just fine because defending property didn't mean leaving piles of bodies. There was no problem buying groceries (just drive to the local Super Wal-Mart), no problem staying safe (just drive past the local Super Wal-Mart), no loss of communications or anything... but if you had property in the area you had to defend or hire a private security guard because the cops are going to leave and hold press conferences until it all blows over.

    3) "Total break-down of social order..." that's the one we haven't faced in a long time, but it has been faced in many places. In that case, your goal is to survive long enough to find an external support network (people in other nations who believe in your cause) and bring in real weapons through them. In Afghanistan that support network was first the US (during the Soviet years) and then various muslim groups (during the Northern Aliance years... including today). The last time the US really went through that was arguably the Revolution. Having a battle rifle would be nice, but rockets, explosives, and so on would be nicer. And you've got to ask yourself whether you are going to want to be a soldier in this new revolution whatever it is. Probably not my sort of thing.

    A decent hunting rifle... a Garand being acceptable... will cover most of that.


    Maybe we should send some of those well trained people to Iraq. :(
     
  13. Manedwolf

    Manedwolf member

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    Unless you prefer a semi-auto for closeup scuffling, and an extremely accurate bolt-action for "they're armed but still on the edge of the property" precise, scoped sniping.

    Which I would. There's a reason why military and police snipers still use bolt-actions, and it's not desparation. :p
     
  14. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    Well when the S hits the F my fire team will likely be a stinky fat beagle and an irate old man with a walker-mounted varmint rifle mumbling about black helicopters and a wistful granny with a Browning .22... it won't matter if the bad guys are zombies, looters, blue helmeted paratroops or alien invaders... if you step foot outside your domicile with a rifle you will be targeted as a bad guy by who ever is rampaging through your suburbs.


    Just something to keep in mind while you are sorting through your golf bag full of tactical options.
     
  15. 1911JMB

    1911JMB Member

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    If you ask me, a SHTF scenerio would be something like a robber in the middle of the night, or a robber on the street, or perhaps a nasty hurricane that lays waste to a city. The fact is, russia will never invade no matter how much you hope they will.

    In my opinion, for an actually possible shtf scenerio, any reliable pump 12 gauge would be perfect. They are highly powerful and maneuverable, so I think a 12 gauge would be the optimum choice. A century of police use can't be wrong.
     
  16. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Member

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    Rob, that's an interesting theory but in reality when the SHTF the law runs away. Los Angeles showed it perfectly... citizens on their roofs with rifles, no cops anywhere around, certainly no imaginary fire teams taking anybody out. A man with a rifle in a SHTF scenario has more to fear from SARS than from government sharpshooters.

    1911JMB -- that's just home defense... SHTF is survivalist fantasy, not home defense.
     
  17. ACP

    ACP Member

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    I voted AR -- and I LOVE the M1A. The AR is lighter and ammo is lighter. Pop a 4x scope on the carry handle and you're good to go.
     
  18. 1911JMB

    1911JMB Member

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    <"1911JMB -- that's just home defense... SHTF is survivalist fantasy, not home defense.">

    My point exactly. And as I did say, occasionaly a natural disaster (or perhaps a racist act of police brutality) will set off a city into riotous looting situation. And in that case, a remington 870 or some other pump 12 is perfect. Of course, you can't take long range shots with a 12 gauge, but thats not an issue in a riot or katrina type situation.
     
  19. flip180

    flip180 Member

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    All though I have an M1A, I voted for the AK.

    Flip.
     
  20. Rexrider

    Rexrider Member

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    I voted for the AR because that is what I have.

    However, I also have a Marlin 1894 in .357 mag which I consider a fine SHTF weapon for most situations except for all out combat as described by Don't Tread On Me.

    The 1894 fits nicely in Ed Ames's list.

    1. Lost in the woods or desert. Well, the Marlin is what I would have with me if I were out in the woods or desert.

    2. "Temporary break-down of authority...". The Marlin is a great personal/home defense rifle. This would most likely be a purely defensive situation. It would not attract as much attention from the good or bad guys. Although I try to avoid being out and about under these circumstances anyway. The Marlin would get me home if I got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    3. "Total break-down of social order...". In this situation I would want the AR with me. But if all I had was the Marlin, I would still have a viable weapon for defensive purposes. I would not want to go to battle with it but if nothing else it could be used to get a better rifle.
     
  21. DawgFvr

    DawgFvr Member

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    Obviously...SHTF means different things to different people. I have to go with M1 Garand. After carrying a M16 for most of my life, I like the idea of reaching out and touching someone with 30.06.
     
  22. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    Well my SHTF rifle is a DSA SA58 Para with a Trijicon Tri-Power in a Larue mount.

    I don’t have much ammo though because every time I stockpile some I end up shooting it up.

    But to tell you the truth, the only SHTF I worry about around here in KS is my wife finding out how much I paid for: “The silly black rifle that folds in half”.

    I don’t know if we could gather together enough folks here in Leavenworth to have a riot or much in the way of civil unrest anyway. But I did whack a beaver with it, so between that and keeping my steel swingers at bay it serves a purpose.

    Chuck
     
  23. azredhawk44

    azredhawk44 Member

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    I am absolutely shocked that the SKS was not on this list.

    Much cheaper than the AK, in the budget of po' folk that can't afford some of the more expensive options. Semiautomatic, stripper-clip fed and packs a punch. "The poor man's Garand."

    That said, I have an M1A scout for those purposes as well as being used for hunting and recreation.
     
  24. Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey member

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    I chose AR in 5.56mm because the ammo, gun parts, and magazines can all be taken from Big Brothers' little dead Minions.:what: :D :evil:
     
  25. Diggler

    Diggler Member

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    Bolt or semi doesn't much matter, you won't be dumping ammo for long. You don't have a supply line like the military. How much ammo can you REALLY carry? And food, water, other supplies... make every shot count.
     
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