Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

SHTF stuff

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Moparmike, Jul 5, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Moparmike

    Moparmike Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Messages:
    3,600
    Location:
    Oddly enough, a downwardly-plunging firey handbask
    After reading some of TFL's various posts reguarding SHTF, I gasp and stare with disbelief that such considerations are necessary. Now when I say this I am not coming from the POV of a sheeple who believes the gov can do no harm, but a sheeple (still converting, baaaahhh) who doesnt think that such an incredibly large amount of SHTF will happen. Am I just delusional, not pessimistic enough (that would be a stretch), or just ignorant of things others know?

    http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65433 Take that thread for example. It has people listing insane amounts of ammo for the express purpose of SHTF. Just what kind of situation will anyone need 10k rounds of ammo for all of their guns combined?:scrutiny: 10-man squad loadouts dont have that much ammo (if there is only one SAW {mil designation?}). In the opinion of this almost fully converted sheeple, that is an absolutely insane amount of ammo.

    I welcome anyone who wishes to "straighten me out" and see the light.
     
  2. telomerase

    telomerase Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    3,205
    Location:
    The bear-infested hills of Grafton NH
    Places where people needed ammo

    >Just what kind of situation will anyone need 10k rounds of ammo for all of their guns combined?

    A very partial list:
    Armenians 1918
    Ukrainians 1918-91
    German Jews 1932-45
    Other European Jews 1939-45 (seen The Pianist? Or read Mila 18?)
    Latvia 1940
    Finland 1940
    Mostofeurope 1940
    Switzerland 1940 (and since they all actually had the ammo, they didn't need it!!)
    China 1930-49
    Israel 1948
    Cambodia 1975
    Post-Shah Iran
    ex-Jugoslavia (moce biti seguran, znaju da "bolje grob nego rob")
    Rwanda Tutsi massacres
    Other African megamassacres you've forgotten
    LA riots (my friend who lived out there was suddenly popular among all his non-gun-owning friends)
    Marsopolis air riots, 2015

    Governments killed a couple hundred million people in the 20th century by shooting or gassing them (and a billion people by parasitically draining economies). I'm not going to claim that personal weapons could have stopped this everywhere and everywhen, but the fact remains that if you have a 100-year timeline your odds are good of SHTF wherever you live (except Switzerland or the Duchy of Grand Fenwick)

    On the other hand, your personal risk balance might well be better served by an arsenal of one surplus bolt-action and ten rounds, so that you can afford a good health club, a gas mask, a Rutan suborbital spacecraft, a personal telomere-reset lab, and all the other little necessities for dealing with life's contingencies. But don't discourage other people from stocking ammo...
     
  3. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,957
    Location:
    Nevada, escaped from the PDRK via Idaho.
    Use the excess to trade for things you didn't stock up on or have run out of.

    Pilgrim
     
  4. LostOneToo

    LostOneToo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    114
    Location:
    small cave south of Atlanta
    Like the old saying goes.."Better to have it and not need it..."
     
  5. Moparmike

    Moparmike Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Messages:
    3,600
    Location:
    Oddly enough, a downwardly-plunging firey handbask
    Ok, I deserved to have Europe 1939-1945 slap me in the face. I guess I was thinking "How much S(could)HTF in ARKANSAS?" I really wasnt thinking that some tyrannical despot was going to be elected (or whatever) and start rounding up Anglo-Saxon decendants for genocide. My point was I couldnt see having such a large amount of ammo for general SHTF, as opposed to "Dear friggin Christ, our entire military has been brainwashed by some looney liberal and has decided that I personally and likeminded individuals should die!".

    Just because I said I was a recovering sheeple doesnt mean that it takes a fire-hose of the past century's genocidal mayhem to convey a point. A nice explanation of possibilities here in the states would suffice. LA was a good example. I dont know the story on Cambodia in '75. Pol-pot? I dont know anything about it besides a million people died (begin flaming my ignorance now, avoid the rush).

    Anyway, my original post wasnt entirely clear. I do know that things can happen, I just dont know what can happen here. I really dont think the 101st Airborne is going to drop on my house and start $h|t. If they did, the People's Republic of Fayettnam would be screwed, because all they would have is their "Smoke Free Fayetteville" signs to defend themselves.

    Awaiting more answers...
     
  6. Ian

    Ian Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,857
    If any number of politicians were to have their way, ammo would be illegal. If that situation becomes reality, how long would you like to be able to shoot for (in practice and recreation, if nothing else)? Keep that much ammo around. I don't know about you, but I can go through a couple hundred rounds in a morning at the range with ease. In that light, even 10k isn't more than a year or two's supply.

    Even if ammo remains legal for the foreseeable future, the chances are very high that its manufacture and importation will be further regulated and/or restricted, thereby increasing its cost. Right now most surplus ammo is cheaper than its ever been before (in terms of real dollar value). Buying it up now makes good economic sense.

    Finally, there is the possibility (albeit remote) of having to use your firearms to defend yourself from the [insert bad guys here]. In such a situation you would have to supply yourself for some time, and probably also most of your neighbors. That 10k-round pile of ammo looks a lot smaller when you divide it ten ways.
     
  7. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,724
    Moparmike,

    While SHTF Packs and BOB are almost used synonymously, I have more of a BOB than a SHTF pack.

    SHTF for me was the LA riots back in 1992. Schools out..yaaay...luckily the goblins didn't make it over to my neighborhood, but it was pretty scary.

    BOB was for the two major earthquakes (ok one major and one MAAAJOORRR) and too many other medium-sized earthquakes for me to count. I should have had a pack ready in case my house was about to sit on me. I also woke up in the middle of the night because my neighbor's garage (a good 20 yards from my bedroom) was filled with paint and was on fire. Kinda scary waking up and your room is all orange. Also another time, a piece of burning something flew from a highrise and landed on the roof of a house two houses down. We ran outside with nothing but our jammies. The LA Fire Department will save us!!!!

    I think all this happened to me in a span of six years (?).

    SHTF may be for apocalypse/TEOTWAWKI, but BOBs are perennial. You never know when the people in the unit below you will go out for a jog and leave the stove on.

    Yes, I have one in the car too in case I'm stuck on the road. Traffic's bad enough in the LA basin when things are normal, we don't need any more collapsed freeways.
     
  8. Edward429451

    Edward429451 member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,251
    Location:
    Colorado Springs Colorado
    A lot of ammo does a few things. Its at least somewhat of a deterrance to an outright dictatorship being introduced 'today' (It would be a logistical nightmare for them to try and take the country by force, they'd probably barely have enough guys to protect the bases), It allows one to practice more, have barterables to trade for essentials if SHTF, and peace of mind I guess (feels better to have 5000 sitting there than 500).

    Because too much ammo doesn't happen.
     
  9. Moparmike

    Moparmike Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Messages:
    3,600
    Location:
    Oddly enough, a downwardly-plunging firey handbask
    Wow. Good reply Ian, Skunk, and Edward. (Hmm, the picture seems to be clearing. Damned fog.)

    BTW, I am familiar with the only excess ammo is ammo that one cannot use/carry. It does no good where it is not needed and cannot be reached.

    What is a BOB and TEOTWAWKI?
     
  10. telomerase

    telomerase Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    3,205
    Location:
    The bear-infested hills of Grafton NH
    >I guess I was thinking "How much S(could)HTF in ARKANSAS?"

    Naturally, no evil politicians could arise in Arkansas. (For instance, no politician who would order cruise missile strikes on a Third World medical factory to get his affair with an intern off the front page.) Or are you postulating that no evil politician would ever want to RETURN to poverty-stricken Arkansas? (Mandatory Texas bash of neighboring state that actually has a reliable water supply).

    Personally, if I were an evil politician I would put my "Bavarian retreat" in Arkansas. It's a very pretty state.
     
  11. Moparmike

    Moparmike Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Messages:
    3,600
    Location:
    Oddly enough, a downwardly-plunging firey handbask
    AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!:banghead: :banghead: :cuss: :fire:

    That isnt what I meant. I meant...screw it. Forget I asked. And yes, it is a very pretty state with a very NICE, RELIABLE water system, unless you are in St.Paul. Then its sulfur water for you.

    Anyone with a REASONABLE answer please continue, as you know what I meant.
     
  12. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    9,325
    Location:
    Hoosieropolis
    Moparmike,

    To put it another way:

    It ain't like the stuff goes bad. If you know you shoot it regularly, it's much cheaper to buy every six months to a year in case lots than every week in 20- or 50-round boxes, you know what I mean?

    Having a couple of thousand rounds in the basement doesn't mean you're paranoid, it just means you're a smart shopper. ;)
     
  13. Edward429451

    Edward429451 member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,251
    Location:
    Colorado Springs Colorado
    True paranoia is somewho's in possession of all the facts.

    And just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't really out to get you.

    :uhoh:
     
  14. Ian

    Ian Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,857
    BOB: Bug-Out Bag. What you grab when a fire/flood/invasion/earthquake/swarm of locusts necessitates leaving quickly.

    TEOTWAWKI: The End Of The World As We Know It. Major and fundamental disruption to your lifestyle, potentially caused by invasion, blossoming tyranny, drought, famine, pandemic disease, or the sight of Hillary on your front lawn.
     
  15. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,724
    Two types of situations, one where you would want to bunk down at your place and wait for it to blow over. Throw in a bunch of looters like the LA Riots. I wasn't there nor did I follow the coverage (too young and stupid to know or care) of the Hurricane Andrew ordeal, but I imagine it was the same. During the riots, we could count on using our toilets, utilities, kitchen, but during the earthquakes, we couldn't. And I prefer meals that don't require any sort of flame :uhoh: (gas leaks and whatnot)

    More ammo, the merrier. I save money if I buy the stuff in bulk, anyway. I hate having not being able to shoot a match because I was too stupid to resupply, and the stuff is out of stock at the local gun stores. I stockpile ammo the same way I stockpile food, just so I don't have to shop as much.

    Other situations like a flood, volcano, monster attacks, etc. throw what you can in the car and go. If I'm in the car, sure I'll take extra, but if I'm on foot, heck, I might not even bring a long gun.

    Much nicer to be stuck at home, at least you have your creature comforts to keep your family members and yourself sane while you wait for order to be restored.
     
  16. Abenaki

    Abenaki Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2003
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    Between the sheets
    Hi every one!
    They call me Abenaki, I have been lurking in the shadows for a long time.

    Why have lots of ammo?
    Well.....What if you loose your health and can't go back to work?
    Or the economy takes a total dump for a few years and you are out of work? Or maybe you are saving it up so that you can do a lot of shooting when you retire?

    Another reason is.....it aint gonna get any cheaper!

    Abenaki
     
  17. SteelyDan

    SteelyDan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,108
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Sometimes we probably get a little carried away, and no, you'll never need 10K rounds in a SHTF scenario. But then again, there's no real downside in trying to be prepared, just in case. The only problem, as I see it, is if you stock up on ammo and somehow think you're prepared. There are probably 50 things that would be far more important than the ammo if the bad stuff ever happens.
     
  18. 0007

    0007 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    909
    Location:
    Back in the USA
    Abenaki's last line said it best -
    It's only going to cost more next year. I have boxes of (stored) .22 ammo that cost me about $.50/box back when. I still buy it a brick at a time when it's on sale. Same with milsurp and non-milsurp in other calibers. Someday it will not be available. If you don't think so, that's your perogative. I'll just keep buying when I see it on sale. :D
     
  19. roscoe

    roscoe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,264
    Location:
    NV
    Moparmike, I gotta say, I'm with you. I never have more than 500 rounds stored for eventualities (probably another 500-1000 for plinking, etc. just laying around depending on how recently I went to the range). My feeling is that if things go south we will have some warning and I will stock up. And for sudden riots, biker hoardes, etc., 500 rounds is plenty for me and the little family unit.
     
  20. TarpleyG

    TarpleyG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    2,981
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I also have to agree somewhat with MoparMike. My SHTF gear consists of the essentials to survive 3 days after a hurricane. There are no guns involved really. There here in the house but not with the gear and I will most likely be able to get to them afterward. Ammo? I have a few hundred rounds of this and that but nothing major. But, alas, some folks sleep and feel better knowing they are better prepared from a firepower standpoint.

    GT
     
  21. PAshooter

    PAshooter Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    614
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, U.S.A.!!!
    While not too worried about the cataclysmic (sp?) type SHTF scenario I am concerned about the "liberty dying from a thousand little cuts" I see happening all around me (especially living in the east coast focal point of creeping socialism). Who knows what will be banned or made illegal next year. So I'm buying what I can as I can, and that includes sufficient ammo to feed all my little friends for a prolonged period of time. Call it saving for a rainy day - whether it's "rainy" because of a change in my job situation or a change in the political climate.

    So far at least in Maryland every new restriction has grandfathered what we already own. I'm working on the biggest, baddest grampa I can manage :D
     
  22. shermacman

    shermacman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    1,754
    Ditto that mdshooter!
    I do not believe that there will be a SHTF situation. Frankly, we have a far more dangerous situation, we are slowly bleeding away our individual rights.
    Massachusetts has a terrible reputation on gun issues but right now the reality is that with a Class A license I can buy a hand gun over the counter and walk out of the store in under 15 minutes. WallyWorld is fully stocked with pistol, rifle and shotgun ammo at prices that you can't get over the internet (yeah, shipping costs do add up!)
    However, that could change tomorrow. I have just under 10,000 rounds of .30/06, .308, .223, .45, .40, .22 and 12 gauge ammo. It just sort of adds up!
     
  23. Chipperman

    Chipperman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,572
    Location:
    Essex Co, MA
    There's a difference between having 10k rounds b/c you're scared, or 10k because you shoot a lot.

    There's also a difference between 10k round of the same caliber vs 1k rounds of each for 10 different guns.

    Back when I had only a few guns, I thought 1k rounds was a lot to have around the house. Now I shoot every week and have many more guns of differing chambers. Every time I get a gun in a different caliber, I buy 500-1000 rounds of ammo for it.

    I actually don't have any idea how much ammo I have in the house right now, but it's gotta be close to 10k.

    As others have said, it's not gonna get any cheaper, and some is getting harder to find. :cuss:
     
  24. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,724
    People are anesthesized by television and other mind-numbing creature comforts....if that goes kaput, y'all better prepare for TEOTWAWKI! ;)

    (heck what am I gonna do if I can't THR for a day?!?!?!) :p
     
  25. mpthole

    mpthole Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,058
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    This is mostly directed at Roscoe, TarpleyG and MoparMike.
    IIRC, there was no warning on September 11th. How long did it take for the major chain stores to stop selling ammo? How many days or weeks later did it take for UPS and FedEx to get caught up? For how terrible that day was I think we got off pretty easy because there were no immediate follow-up attacks. Just imagine if on Sept 12th various bio/chem attacks started in the major cities? Or how about truck bombs on Sept 13th?

    If things would have gone any further south, those 10k rounds would have looked pretty good, IMNSHO.

    ps. I can't get that link to work from the original post.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page