Siamese 45/70, looking for gunsmith

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nac7789

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Hey everybody,
I recently picked up a Siamese 45/70 rebarrel. She sits in an extra heavy stock that I have already bedded and am refinishing. Receiver and barrel both look excellent except for some thinned bluing but I also plan to rust blue entire thing as well.

Anyway my real problem seems to be the bolt. Everything seems in order but whoever did this conversion put a bastard file to the bolt face and simply ground it flat. Bolt locks up and all but it has an unhealthy amount of slack in it when closed because the bolt face is ground flat. I am an amateur gunsmith but I've honestly never run across one of these before and despite my searching I cannot find a single picture on the internet of a 45/70 bolt face conversion. I understand they are generally 'opened up' on a mill.

Really I guess having a picture of one is irrrelevant because either way I know mine is bubba'd and isn't correct. I plan on getting a new siamese bolt both from natchez and having a smith open up the face properly- with that this thing should be sweet.

My question is- does anyone know of a smith that knows of these and can do it properly? Honestly seems pretty simple really.

I really can't say if or who shot it like this. Bolt locks up but there's a measurable amount of play back and forth when closed due to that face being ground off. I scoped the barrel and checked the receiver lugs from the front and they don't seem to have any setback issues and the bolt itself seems perfect minus the face. The barrel does have a bit of copper in it though so it has had rounds down it. I'd rather not shoot it like this with the headspace being the way that it is. The lack of any bolt face also makes ejection a bit wonky. She does feed from the magazine just fine though- I understand these usually struggle with that due to the feed rails.
I got if off a guy who had it in his shop for some time but had no clue of its origins.
Thanks!
 
...Bolt locks up and all but it has an unhealthy amount of slack in it when closed because the bolt face is ground flat... Bolt locks up but there's a measurable amount of play back and forth when closed due to that face being ground off...

With a properly dimensioned round in the chamber or not?
 
Here's mine. Definitely bubba'd.
You can see it's been totally ground flat. Looks like my presumptions were correct.
 

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With a properly dimensioned round in the chamber or not?
Yep with or without round in the chamber. This is virtually totally confirmed to be related to the missing material on the bolt face seeing the pictures posted above. I have another siamese bolt on order from natchez I just need to find a smith somewhere in the USA who is competent enough to open up the bolt face to 45/70 rim diameter. I live in miami and competence is in very short supply here.
 
It's a pretty easy job a simple mill or lathe will work. I got to ask what going to happen the the old bolt.
old bolt will be stripped and the bolt body will be going into my spare parts bin!
Thanks for the info and pictures btw I'll take the new bolt body to the one guy I know down here and we'll see what he says about chucking it up
 
Ya I figured lol. Strange they know enuff to rebarrel the gun but not now to cut the bolt face. I'm guessing it's in the military stock, any idea who did the barrel.
 
Ya I figured lol. Strange they know enuff to rebarrel the gun but not now to cut the bolt face. I'm guessing it's in the military stock, any idea who did the barrel.

It's in a huge heavy sporter stock which is pretty nice. I bedded the action and stripped the stock down to bare wood in prep for a BLO finish.
A bit frustrating about the bolt job- but no I have no idea when, where, or how the work was done, unfortunately.
 
No navy arms anywhere, some times I've seen nv.

Here's mine it's a early navy arms, I've got Remington sights on it and it needs a new recoil pad since the limbsavers only last so long.


IMG_20180720_183627.jpg
 
Well, that's one way to do the job. As you noticed, the problem is that, having no remaining raised portion of the bolt face to locate the cartridge rim, the case is not held against the bolt face by tension of the extractor, and falls-off the bolt face before reaching the ejector. If headspace was correctly set in re-barreling, there should be no safety issue in firing the rifle; only a functional one. Odd that whoever did the original work was able to alter the receiver to permit proper feed of the .45-70 rounds, but did not realize the need for support of the rim opposite the extractor. Good luck with your new bolt, and be sure to check headspace after installing it...

PRD1 - mhb - MIke
 
We had a few in for repairs due to feeding operation as to either jamming or speed of chambering etc. The commercial conversions - (most by Navy Arms) appear to have been done hastily. Some work just ok but others will feed unreliably, due to slight differences in cartridge dimensions and speed of bolt operation. We stopped taken them in as we could not guarantee perfect operation and owners usually sold them off.

That said we did do our own shop conversions using a special jig to open bolt face to correct diameter. Even with best tooling and machinery it is, IMHO, not a 100% reliable conversion as to feeding due to straight wall cartridge shape. May add best success was with unaltered bolts and turning down the cartridge rims to fit the bolt face. Your mileage may vary.

I doubt i (or anyone else) will do any more. The value of unaltered siamese mausers has gone from $5 in late 60's to near $1k now.
 
We had a few in for repairs due to feeding operation as to either jamming or speed of chambering etc. The commercial conversions - (most by Navy Arms) appear to have been done hastily. Some work just ok but others will feed unreliably, due to slight differences in cartridge dimensions and speed of bolt operation. We stopped taken them in as we could not guarantee perfect operation and owners usually sold them off.

That said we did do our own shop conversions using a special jig to open bolt face to correct diameter. Even with best tooling and machinery it is, IMHO, not a 100% reliable conversion as to feeding due to straight wall cartridge shape. May add best success was with unaltered bolts and turning down the cartridge rims to fit the bolt face. Your mileage may vary.

I doubt i (or anyone else) will do any more. The value of unaltered siamese mausers has gone from $5 in late 60's to near $1k now.

Interesting information, thank you!
I wouldn't be opposed to turning down some case rims as I handload exclusively for all my rifles. Any insight on a proper (I'd ask efficient but I doubt there's an efficient method of doing this) method of doing so?
 
The best way to turn rims is in the lathe: an arbor is turned in the chuck (and left there, for the balance of the operation) which permits a snug fit for the case mouth and a shoulder against which the case mouth is stopped - the part which goes into the case mouth doesn't need to be very long; about 1/4" is sufficient. A case is placed over the arbor, and the live center run into the primer pocket to center the case and press it lightly against the arbor. The cutting tool is then set to turn the rim to the proper diameter and the cross slide locked at that setting, so that it doesn't have to be adjusted for each case. The tailstock or tailstock ram is backed-off far enough to place and remove each case, and the carriage moved left and right to turn each rim - a mere touch with a fine file will break the sharp edges of the rim after turning.
If you have no lathe, you can use an electric drill with a 1/2" chuck, and a file, but this is tedious if many cases are to be altered.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke
 
Call ER Shaw and ask if they still do Siamese Mauser 45-70 conversions, tell them what you have, with the new bolt. I have seen their work, it was done right.
99.9% you will need to pull that barrel, setup the new bolt, lap the lugs and re-headspace the barrel. Just bite the bullet and make a decent rifle out of the project.
I live in NW FL, 14 hours away, or I would do the job for you.

This is my personal custom 45-70 Mauser, bastogne walnut, island sling swivel mounts, shadow line cheak, NEGW sights, Timney trigger, swing safety.
 

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Very NIce!! Probably the best custom I have seen in a 45/70. Very straight stock with express sights are about as perfect as you can get in fast bolt action for dangerous game. Reminds me of a Rigby 500 express. Well worth a look if your just reading this,
 
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