Side by side Shotguns.

[CoalTrain49]

I used to use a Beretta 426E sxs to hunt wild pheasants on the Snake River in E. WA. That's a single trigger gun but it worked well for me. I preferred a sxs for game and O/U for targets. I've had a few British game guns, I even imported one from the UK about 25 years ago when they were turning those in by the thousands to the police. There was a gentleman who lived near me who wrote a book on the gun trade in Birmingham in the last century. His name is Douglas Tate and he had a fine collection of Pape shotguns and was kind enough to let me examine. I believe he was an importer also as he was from the UK.

I've sold all of my shotguns except a few. I think I still have a 12 bore G E Lewis in the safe. That was my grouse gun but I haven't hunted in 15 years.





Good quality sxs guns used to be sought after here in the US about 25 years ago but mostly have gone the way of the Passenger pigeon. The last company that made a stab at producing one here in the US was Ruger and the Gold Label failed miserably. Prices for high quality sxs guns have hit rock bottom here in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Gold_Label

 

[Speedo66]

That 1902 ad with the pump shotguns, $17+ each, was easily about 1 1/2 weeks average wages back then.

 

[Slamfire]

That 1902 ad with the pump shotguns, $17+ each, was easily about 1 1/2 weeks average wages back then.

Live long enough, and you will believe that $10.00 for a cup of coffee was cheap, because the price in the future will be $50.00. I remember a bottomless cup of coffee at a quarter. Now the nickle content in a nickle, is worth more than five cents.

Inflation is deliberate debasement of the currency, and you have to have an inflation calculator to understand the cost of vintage items. A $17.82 dollar shotgun in 1902 would cost $540.2 in 2020 currency. A $4.10 white powder wonder, is $124.31. Not so cheap when adjusted by currency debasement.

 

[troy fairweather]

Love them old adds, I have a lot of nice original and posters they were lost in the flood along with some nice guns. People forget about inflation, I always keep it in mind when I see a new gun for say and Grande that the same thing years ago was $200.

 

[bangswitch]

What I find interesting is that in the US gauges like 16 and 28 are relatively common. If anyone over here is using anything other than a 12 bore it'll be a 20 bore. A chap at a clay shoot I used to go to had a 28, but I can't remember the last time I saw a 16. I bet it would be difficult to get cartridges for one over here.

Do you use the terms "gauge" and "bore" interchangeably in the UK? Over here, the only one referred to by "bore" is the little .410 bore, which is actually a .41 caliber. 12, 16, 20, and 28's are referred to as "gauge", since they are sized by the tradition of the size of a lead ball that will fit the barrel; for example, a 12 gauge barrel diameter will take a lead ball weighing 1/12th of a pound, a 20 gauge will take a lead ball weighing 1/20th of a pound.

I love side-by-sides, grew up shooting them and never tried an over-under until recently. I still prefer the SxS, and own 4 of them. Nothing really fancy or expensive, but quite serviceable and reliable, especially for their ages.

We have CZ rifles over here, but it looks like their shotguns aren't imported, as I doubt that there would be much demand for them.
I bet they're built well however.

CZ does not build their own shotguns but import them from Turkey; they are made by Huglu. CZ does manufacture all other arms sold with their name on them. I own a Huglu with the CZ label, and it is indeed well-made. Everything is CNC milled and then hand fitted, the receiver of mine is color-case hardened, and not chemically colored. The stocks are high-quality Turkish walnut; some are fairly plain, but you see some with nice character at times. If you cannot find CZ shotguns, maybe there is some sort of import restriction from Turkey?

Here are my collection of SxS. Three are made by Savage, who bought the Stevens and AH Fox works many years ago, and later marketed the Stevens box lock action (designed by Anson and Deely) as the Fox Model B. They really have nothing in common with the AH Fox, the name was just used for marketing purposes. I have a 20 gauge, manufactured in 1950, a 16 gauge manufactured in 1968 and a 12 gauge manufactured in 1974, top to third in the picture below. The 20 gauge has a solid rib, the 16 and 12 have vented ribs, all three are extractor only (no ejectors) and all are double trigger; all three are also chambered for 2-3/4" shells, and have fixed right-modified and left-full chokes.

The bottom one is my CZ/Huglu. I always wanted a shotgun with "rabbit ear" hammers, and CZ markets this one as its "Hammer Classic". It is a true side lock, 30" barrels with interchangeable chokes, and is chambered for 3" shells. It has become my favorite to shoot; I don't hunt, but do a fair amount of sporting clays, skeet and 5-stand.



Here's some closer views of the two 12 gauge guns:

 

[troy fairweather]

Am I the only one that doesn't like beavertail forends on a sxs. Same for triggers a single triggers does not feel right on a sxs.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Am I the only one that doesn't like beavertail forends on a sxs. Same for triggers a single triggers does not feel right on a sxs.

Double triggers for an upland bird gun are magic. Bird flushes close and the front trigger is the open choke. Rear trigger is the tighter choke as the bird may have dodged your first shot. Lots of American sxs guns were choked for waterfowl that required both chokes to be full or F/M. Barrel selectors became common on sxs so you could choose but it never really replaced the double trigger as the selector was too slow. Nobody used it except to select the first pull to be the open choke. But then with choke tubes you could have any order or combo you wanted. Choke tubes ended the popularity of the double trigger fixed choke sxs shotgun.

These days I would just use an auto loader with a tube I thought to be adequate for my shooting. If things weren't going well I'd just change tubes but it's rarely the gear, if you know what I mean.

 

[cfullgraf]

Double triggers for an upland bird gun are magic. Bird flushes close and the front trigger is the open choke. Rear trigger is the tighter choke as the bird may have dodged your first shot. .

Yes, the double trigger is an "instant"choke change. It definitely provides some advantages.

When I first was shooting and hunting with my Dad's 28 ga side by side, I was comfortable selecting which trigger to use on a particular shot.

Since I have been shooting competitive skeet with a single trigger over/under, my ability with the double trigger has diminished. That is nothing practice and training can change again.

I guess with practice and training, one could do something similar with a single trigger over/under selecting which barrel to shoot first on a particular shot.

There is alot more to field bird hunting than meets the eye.

Of course, choke choice for hunting with a pump or semi-auto is alway a compromise. They offer their own advantages and disadvantages in the field.

 

[Spanner Man]

I can understand why over and unders and side by side shotguns would be popular in trap or skeet. The competitor shoots a couple of shots, empties the shotgun shells into their hand, and loads a couple more for the next set of clays. But, competitors are a small sub set of shot gun users and owners.

The guys in the field are using semi autos or pumps. Pump shotguns are a lot less than any side by side, and over and under. The cheapest has always been the single shot, and millions of them have been made.

View attachment 1026473

View attachment 1026474

Double barrel shotguns were in the $20 to $50 dollar range, while these were less

View attachment 1026475

and these, were a lot less

View attachment 1026476

View attachment 1026477

twist barrel.

View attachment 1026478

on the high end of single barrel shotguns, the Remington hammerless

View attachment 1026479

Good morning all.


What a terrific bunch you are. It's great to see your guns and hear your views.

You're spot on in saying that pumps and autos are cheaper than doubles. Aside from Baikal shotguns my Ranger 120 was considerably cheaper than any double when I bought it in 1984. I paid £270 sterling for it brand new. Decent Spanish doubles started at £350 for a non ejector, and over £400 for an ejector. At today's exchange rates £400 would be circa $540.

Those old averts are great ain't they! As Speedo66 says, that was a lot of money in those days.

I used to use a Beretta 426E sxs to hunt wild pheasants on the Snake River in E. WA. That's a single trigger gun but it worked well for me. I preferred a sxs for game and O/U for targets. I've had a few British game guns, I even imported one from the UK about 25 years ago when they were turning those in by the thousands to the police. There was a gentleman who lived near me who wrote a book on the gun trade in Birmingham in the last century. His name is Douglas Tate and he had a fine collection of Pape shotguns and was kind enough to let me examine. I believe he was an importer also as he was from the UK.

I've sold all of my shotguns except a few. I think I still have a 12 bore G E Lewis in the safe. That was my grouse gun but I haven't hunted in 15 years.

View attachment 1026485

View attachment 1026486

Good quality sxs guns used to be sought after here in the US about 25 years ago but mostly have gone the way of the Passenger pigeon. The last company that made a stab at producing one here in the US was Ruger and the Gold Label failed miserably. Prices for high quality sxs guns have hit rock bottom here in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Gold_Label

I've had a bash with a 426 Beretta. It was a lovely gun. The latest Beretta SxS's are terrific but very expensive, and well out of my price range.
The gun trade in Birmingham was huge, and like so many of our industries it's all gone.
Pape made some lovely guns. A gunsmith friend of mine restored an old Pape hammer gun that was made in about 1870. It had lovely wood, and Damascus barrels. He was an excellent shot, and managed to straight a round of Olympic skeet with it, much to the surprise of everyone there. Being a game gun it shot really high, and it was choked 3/4 and full.

Indeed guns were being turned in to the Police in their thousands in the 1990's. Until our 1989/90 firearms act there was no record of where a shotgun was after it was purchased, and serial numbers weren't recorded on our shotgun certificates. So when the new act came into force, a lot of people gave up shooting and handed their guns in, and of course a lot of illegally held guns were handed in too. So the authorities were awash with them.

There is still a market for high end SxS's over here for driven Pheasant days etc, but lesser side by sides are almost being given away.
It's a shame about the Gold label it looks to be of very high quality. I note that in the Wiki article it says that the high cost of making them was the reason for ending production.


Cheers.


Stewart.

 

[Spanner Man]

Do you use the terms "gauge" and "bore" interchangeably in the UK? Over here, the only one referred to by "bore" is the little .410 bore, which is actually a .41 caliber. 12, 16, 20, and 28's are referred to as "gauge", since they are sized by the tradition of the size of a lead ball that will fit the barrel; for example, a 12 gauge barrel diameter will take a lead ball weighing 1/12th of a pound, a 20 gauge will take a lead ball weighing 1/20th of a pound.

I love side-by-sides, grew up shooting them and never tried an over-under until recently. I still prefer the SxS, and own 4 of them. Nothing really fancy or expensive, but quite serviceable and reliable, especially for their ages.

CZ does not build their own shotguns but import them from Turkey; they are made by Huglu. CZ does manufacture all other arms sold with their name on them. I own a Huglu with the CZ label, and it is indeed well-made. Everything is CNC milled and then hand fitted, the receiver of mine is color-case hardened, and not chemically colored. The stocks are high-quality Turkish walnut; some are fairly plain, but you see some with nice character at times. If you cannot find CZ shotguns, maybe there is some sort of import restriction from Turkey?

Here are my collection of SxS. Three are made by Savage, who bought the Stevens and AH Fox works many years ago, and later marketed the Stevens box lock action (designed by Anson and Deely) as the Fox Model B. They really have nothing in common with the AH Fox, the name was just used for marketing purposes. I have a 20 gauge, manufactured in 1950, a 16 gauge manufactured in 1968 and a 12 gauge manufactured in 1974, top to third in the picture below. The 20 gauge has a solid rib, the 16 and 12 have vented ribs, all three are extractor only (no ejectors) and all are double trigger; all three are also chambered for 2-3/4" shells, and have fixed right-modified and left-full chokes.

The bottom one is my CZ/Huglu. I always wanted a shotgun with "rabbit ear" hammers, and CZ markets this one as its "Hammer Classic". It is a true side lock, 30" barrels with interchangeable chokes, and is chambered for 3" shells. It has become my favorite to shoot; I don't hunt, but do a fair amount of sporting clays, skeet and 5-stand.
View attachment 1026579


Here's some closer views of the two 12 gauge guns:
View attachment 1026580

View attachment 1026581
View attachment 1026582

When I started shooting only the term bore was used. However, since the advent of the internet and forums such as this, a lot of American terms are in regular use. Nowadays it's not uncommon to hear someone refer to a shotgun as a 12 gauge and so on. Oddly enough a .410 was just known as a .410. The term bore was never used.
I repair motorcycles, and many cruiser owners use terms like muffler, and fender, insted of silencer and mudguard. The one that cracks me up is 'triple tree' instead of bottom yoke


You have a nice colection of Shotguns. Your Stevens looks very similar to my 'new' $170 Spanish double which I've managed too identify as a Zabala. I'll be taking it out this coming Friday for a round of skeet or two. It should be fun with mod and full chokes

It inetresting that CZ have their guns made by Huglu. Your hammer gun looks very well made. we do have some Turkish Shotgun makes here, so there's no restriction on importing them it would appear.


Cheers.


Stewart.

 

[Spanner Man]

Am I the only one that doesn't like beavertail forends on a sxs. Same for triggers a single triggers does not feel right on a sxs.

A beavertail forend does make a SxS look rather bulky. However, I cannot get on with a splinter forend due to having large hands, and as I've said, a straight stock is a recipe for punching myself in the cheek

I totally agree with you regarding single triggers on a SxS. As Cfullgraf says twin triggers make for an instant choke change. However, as Coaltrain49 says it's choke tubes that ended the popularity of twin triggers and fixed chokes.
I haven't used twin triggers for years, so I had better start practising, or I'm going to look a right Muppet when I take my new gun out for some skeet this coming Friday!


Cheers.


Stewart.

 

[SixteenGauge]

Well, as far as the Side By Side shotgun's popularity in the field, i've been hunting for the vast majority of my life and I have never come across a hunter other than myself who used a side by side shotgun. The vast majority of shotguns being used were pump actions, usually Mossberg or Remington. I've also seen a healthy amount of semi autos in the field, usually Remington or Mossberg, but also alot of the new Browning A5's. The vast majority of the Side by Side market in the US is for Cowboy Action Shooting, and those guns unfortunately end up being chopped to around 20 inches. I used to own alot of side by sides, but I am now down to my grandfather's circa 1905 Hopkins and Allen no. 112 hammerless 12 gauge with "london fluid steel" barrels and a Crescent 12 gauge hammer gun circa 1910 choked full and fuller that I use for squirrel

 

[bangswitch]

While I like the look of the splinter fore end better than the beavertail, I find that the beavertail does afford a bit more heat protection when shooting a long round of clays and the barrels heat up. It's too easy for a fingertip to wrap over the splinter and lie against a barrel, and the beavertail keeps the entire hand on wood.

As to chokes, when I bought my 20 gauge, and later the 16 gauge, both needed new firing pins in the right barrel, which traditionally gets much more use than the left one on a permanently choked gun that is R-modified, L-full. The 20 I have is a marvelous "little" gun, very lightweight and swings very fast, with its 26" barrels. I would almost prefer shooting my 16 over the 12 gauge, but 16 gauge ammunition is difficult to find around here and very expensive when you do find it, compared to 12 gauge.

 

[Jim Watson]

A beavertail forend does make a SxS look rather bulky. However, I cannot get on with a splinter forend due to having large hands,

Old pictures I have seen of the Sports shooting grouse show them grasping the barrels ahead of the splinter foreend. There used to be leather guards that clipped to the barrels to protect from heat in a long run of shots.
I think the beavertail came in shortly after Skeet became popular.

Anecdote alert:
I watched a couple of Heym employees filling their display at the SHOT show. As they set out a double rifle, we all noticed a chip out of the edge of the beavertail. It had been made quite thin to present as trim a profile as possible with a beavertail and the handsome grain did not run for strength. Somewhere along the way it had taken a knock. That was a sick looking pair of junior staffers.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Well, as far as the Side By Side shotgun's popularity in the field, i've been hunting for the vast majority of my life and I have never come across a hunter other than myself who used a side by side shotgun. The vast majority of shotguns being used were pump actions, usually Mossberg or Remington. I've also seen a healthy amount of semi autos in the field, usually Remington or Mossberg, but also alot of the new Browning A5's. The vast majority of the Side by Side market in the US is for Cowboy Action Shooting, and those guns unfortunately end up being chopped to around 20 inches. I used to own alot of side by sides, but I am now down to my grandfather's circa 1905 Hopkins and Allen no. 112 hammerless 12 gauge with "london fluid steel" barrels and a Crescent 12 gauge hammer gun circa 1910 choked full and fuller that I use for squirrel

Regarding the popularity of sxs shotguns, I think it depends on the part of the country where you hunt. I think many ruffed grouse hunters still prefer sxs shotguns. I sold a beautiful 20 ga. L C Smith to a grouse hunter in the UP of MI. If you open up the chokes on those old classics they make great grouse guns. Mine has no choke in the first barrel and I lost count of the number of grouse I shot inside of 10 yards. Actually, I don't think I ever used the second barrel.

Here about 90% hunt waterfowl or wild pheasant. All big tough birds. That's a job for an autoloader. If you happen to see a sxs it's probably some old guy hunting quail or grouse. Even the chukar hunters moved to autoloaders for the additional shot during the flush.

Another thing that killed the sxs was the steel shot regulations. None of mine were compatible with steel so I just sold them. I understand the federal mandate to use steel for waterfowl but never understood it for upland. The state jumped in here and closed many areas to lead shot. I think that was based on birds of prey killing wounded birds and ingesting the shot. I never read any compelling research on that however.

 

[Spanner Man]

Well, as far as the Side By Side shotgun's popularity in the field, i've been hunting for the vast majority of my life and I have never come across a hunter other than myself who used a side by side shotgun. The vast majority of shotguns being used were pump actions, usually Mossberg or Remington. I've also seen a healthy amount of semi autos in the field, usually Remington or Mossberg, but also alot of the new Browning A5's. The vast majority of the Side by Side market in the US is for Cowboy Action Shooting, and those guns unfortunately end up being chopped to around 20 inches. I used to own alot of side by sides, but I am now down to my grandfather's circa 1905 Hopkins and Allen no. 112 hammerless 12 gauge with "london fluid steel" barrels and a Crescent 12 gauge hammer gun circa 1910 choked full and fuller that I use for squirrel

I gave up live shooting some 30 years ago, and even then there weren't many who used a side by side over here. I had my Ranger 120 and a Mossberg 500 with C-lect choke. My Mossy held nine 2 3/4 cartridges including one up the spout, and was a great gun for when the Pigeons were flocking. After our 1989 firearms act repeating shotguns had to be restricted to three shots in order to be kept on a shotgun certificate.
I think that most who hunt over here now use O/U's or semi autos.
I've never heard of Hopkins and Allen, although I've heard of Crescent. They must have made good guns if yours are still going.

While I like the look of the splinter fore end better than the beavertail, I find that the beavertail does afford a bit more heat protection when shooting a long round of clays and the barrels heat up. It's too easy for a fingertip to wrap over the splinter and lie against a barrel, and the beavertail keeps the entire hand on wood.

As to chokes, when I bought my 20 gauge, and later the 16 gauge, both needed new firing pins in the right barrel, which traditionally gets much more use than the left one on a permanently choked gun that is R-modified, L-full. The 20 I have is a marvelous "little" gun, very lightweight and swings very fast, with its 26" barrels. I would almost prefer shooting my 16 over the 12 gauge, but 16 gauge ammunition is difficult to find around here and very expensive when you do find it, compared to 12 gauge.

I had an AYA no3 SxS for some time. Aside from the odd punch in the face I shot sort of ok with it, but I did indeed burn my fingers on several occasions, despite having 'asbestos' mechanics hands! Hence my preference for a beavertail forend, and a pistol grip stock.
I've never shot with a particularly light gun. On the odd occasions that I've had a go with one I find it takes me a while to adjust my swing so I don't throw it around like a baseball player!

I mentioned earlier in this thread that 16 gauge is having a bit of a resurgence over here, although the ammunition is more expensive that 12 gauge. I guess it's the old economies of scale, .410 is very expensive!


Cheers.


Stewart.

 

[Spanner Man]

Old pictures I have seen of the Sports shooting grouse show them grasping the barrels ahead of the splinter foreend. There used to be leather guards that clipped to the barrels to protect from heat in a long run of shots.
I think the beavertail came in shortly after Skeet became popular.

I've seen pictures like that too, and also pictures of folks wearing heavy gloves on their forend hand. It must have made things quite awkward I would think.

Another thing that killed the sxs was the steel shot regulations. None of mine were compatible with steel so I just sold them. I understand the federal mandate to use steel for waterfowl but never understood it for upland. The state jumped in here and closed many areas to lead shot. I think that was based on birds of prey killing wounded birds and ingesting the shot. I never read any compelling research on that however.

We have a lead shot ban coming in over here on any live shooting within the next couple of years. Our cartridge manufacturers are up in arms about it, as they say it doesn't give them enough time to prepare for it. The major manufacturers prepared a joint statement that's worth a read. It highlights amongst other issues the shortage of steel shot in Europe.

https://gamebore.com/uk/news/news/joint-statement-uk-cartridge-manufacturers

Indeed the switch to steel shot will be the death of many older less valuable guns over here too. Basic side by sides are almost being given away already. I'd be prepared to pay to have my chokes opened out, or for multi chokes to be fitted, but not many would, especially if it cost more than the guns worth.


Cheers.


Stewart.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I've seen pictures like that too, and also pictures of folks wearing heavy gloves on their forend hand. It must have made things quite awkward I would think.






We have a lead shot ban coming in over here on any live shooting within the next couple of years. Our cartridge manufacturers are up in arms about it, as they say it doesn't give them enough time to prepare for it. The major manufacturers prepared a joint statement that's worth a read. It highlights amongst other issues the shortage of steel shot in Europe.

https://gamebore.com/uk/news/news/joint-statement-uk-cartridge-manufacturers

Indeed the switch to steel shot will be the death of many older less valuable guns over here too. Basic side by sides are almost being given away already. I'd be prepared to pay to have my chokes opened out, or for multi chokes to be fitted, but not many would, especially if it cost more than the guns worth.


Cheers.


Stewart.

Setting up a barrel for tubes requires that the barrel walls have a certain thickness. British game guns aren't generally a good candidate for that after the barrels are struck. One of the desirable traits of the Brit sxs is the light weight. I believe my Lewis weighs 6 lbs. I had a sxs Winchester model 23 with tubes and it was over 7lbs. I've also had a Win. model 101 that I tried to get tubes installed and was told by Briley the walls were too thin. Anything less than 0.030'' isn't enough to cut a barrel for tubes. Given that most British sxs guns started out at 0.030" the likelihood that the barrels have the required wall thickness will be questionable.

Most of the walls on British sxs barrels will be less than 0.030" after any use. The trade in Britain usually sleeved the barrels below 0.020".

Here is a good website for a look at what we are offered here in the US regarding used sxs game guns. I purchased my G E Lewis from this company about 20 years ago and apparently they're still in business..

http://www.hillrodandgun.com/invent.php

They have a certain snob appeal among the elite. My shotgun is a BLNE from a low tier Birmingham maker who job shopped everything. My grail gun was a Holland and Holland Dominion sidelock but unfortunately I never was able to acquire one. Just as well because it would be a wall hanger today anyway.

 

[Spanner Man]

Setting up a barrel for tubes requires that the barrel walls have a certain thickness. British game guns aren't generally a good candidate for that after the barrels are struck. One of the desirable traits of the Brit sxs is the light weight. I believe my Lewis weighs 6 lbs. I had a sxs Winchester model 23 with tubes and it was over 7lbs. I've also had a Win. model 101 that I tried to get tubes installed and was told by Briley the walls were too thin. Anything less than 0.030'' isn't enough to cut a barrel for tubes. Given that most British sxs guns started out at 0.030" the likelihood that the barrels have the required wall thickness will be questionable.

Most of the walls on British sxs barrels will be less than 0.030" after any use. The trade in Britain usually sleeved the barrels below 0.020".

Here is a good website for a look at what we are offered here in the US regarding used sxs game guns. I purchased my G E Lewis from this company about 20 years ago and apparently they're still in business..

http://www.hillrodandgun.com/invent.php

They have a certain snob appeal among the elite. My shotgun is a BLNE from a low tier Birmingham maker who job shopped everything. My grail gun was a Holland and Holland Dominion sidelock but unfortunately I never was able to acquire one. Just as well because it would be a wall hanger today anyway.

Good morning.


Indeed many British game guns were made as light as possible, and as you say, wouldn't be suitable to have chokes fitted. The Zabala that I've recently purchased has barrels more akin to drain pipes, and the guns weighs somewhere around 8lb.

Those are some pretty hefty prices on that site, though some of the guns do look lovely. Our most popular gun sales site is Guntrader. Here's a link to their Westley Richards page; https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/westley-richards
Lesser guns are relatively cheap, but the dealers are still asking high prices for their high end stuff. Probably for the snob appeal brigade over here!

A lot of Birmingham guns were more or less just assembled by the maker from parts made elsewhere in Birmingham's gun quarter. They did the job, but are as cheap as chips now even if their still useable.

Holland and Holland are lovely guns in the metal. I shot one once, and being an extremely light game gun I managed to punch myself in the face with it!


Cheers.


Stewart.

 

[troy fairweather]

I see there are many gun in Wales, I've hoped to visit family there some time but after my grandmother passing we don't communicate at all. She was a small town I for get the name it's North of Swansea, believe there's a big Call mine there now.
I've hoped to go and see some nice English guns, all the guns I've had seem to wear fast and wondered if the same happens with high end guns. Seems I've seen even high dollar guns should be sent to a Smith after each season.

one reason I think sxs or other shotguns aren't to popular here is because there aren't many smiths that will work on them. I've done some work on sxs's and can fix most things but there's a bunch to be known. I even got a job for a few months at a gun shop to do a few dozen restoration jobs in guns, half were sxs. The shop was a well know bluing shop that went belly up after some family issues, there were 30-35 guns mostly unfinished that I completed to help out.

 

[Spanner Man]

I see there are many gun in Wales, I've hoped to visit family there some time but after my grandmother passing we don't communicate at all. She was a small town I for get the name it's North of Swansea, believe there's a big Call mine there now.
I've hoped to go and see some nice English guns, all the guns I've had seem to wear fast and wondered if the same happens with high end guns. Seems I've seen even high dollar guns should be sent to a Smith after each season.

one reason I think sxs or other shotguns aren't to popular here is because there aren't many smiths that will work on them. I've done some work on sxs's and can fix most things but there's a bunch to be known. I even got a job for a few months at a gun shop to do a few dozen restoration jobs in guns, half were sxs. The shop was a well know bluing shop that went belly up after some family issues, there were 30-35 guns mostly unfinished that I completed to help out.

Wales is about the size of New Jersey with a population of just over 3 million. So it's fairly open country. So there are a disproprotionate number of shooters there. hence there are a lot of guns out that way.
Your Grandmother lived in the south Wales valleys I would think. There are a couple of open cast mines there, but not for long it would appear, as the Welsh government have decided to call time on the remaining mines.

A gunsmith friend of mine said that high end guns are a bit like exotic cars, and they need regular maintenance. Anyone I've known that owned a Ferrari or similar found that to be the case. With consequently high bills of course!
I drive a Honda Jazz, (Fit). I change the oil annually, put in the occasional air filter and spark plugs, and brakes and tyres as required. Other than that it costs me bugger all! I hope my new used gun is a Fit as opposed to a Lamborghini!

Being a mechanical type I can turn my hand to most things. I quite enjoy stripping my guns, but as you say there's a bunch to learn. It sounds like you had some good practise sorting those SxS's out.

On the subject of barrel wall thickness. I've just measured my Zabala, and the wall thickness is a minimum of 44 thou behind the choked area, and increases slightly towards the breech. It measures 48 thou just in front of the forend. That's plenty of meat should I decide to have chokes fitted.......No wonder it weighs circa 8lb.


Cheers.


Stewart.

 

[RH45]

Even though I prefer the capacity of an autoloader, nothing carries like a side by side

 

[Speedo66]

A gunsmith friend of mine said that high end guns are a bit like exotic cars, and they need regular maintenance. Anyone I've known that owned a Ferrari or similar found that to be the case. With consequently high bills of course!
I drive a Honda Jazz, (Fit). I change the oil annually, put in the occasional air filter and spark plugs, and brakes and tyres as required. Other than that it costs me bugger all! I hope my new used gun is a Fit as opposed to a Lamborghini!

My very basic Springfield (Stevens) SxS has been trouble free. As you mention, exotics require lots of maintenance, which is why I ride a Kaw W650 and not a Ducati Desmosedici.

Oh that, and of course the $72K price tag. lol

 

[Cvans]

My very basic Springfield (Stevens) SxS has been trouble free. As you mention, exotics require lots of maintenance, which is why I ride a Kaw W650

Like your choice of gun and motorcycle. Nice find on both.

 

[I6turbo]

I love side-by-sides, grew up shooting them and never tried an over-under until recently. I still prefer the SxS, and own 4 of them. Nothing really fancy or expensive, but quite serviceable and reliable, especially for their ages....
Here are my collection of SxS. Three are made by Savage, who bought the Stevens and AH Fox works many years ago, and later marketed the Stevens box lock action (designed by Anson and Deely) as the Fox Model B. They really have nothing in common with the AH Fox, the name was just used for marketing purposes. I have a 20 gauge, manufactured in 1950, a 16 gauge manufactured in 1968 and a 12 gauge manufactured in 1974, top to third in the picture below. The 20 gauge has a solid rib, the 16 and 12 have vented ribs, all three are extractor only (no ejectors) and all are double trigger; all three are also chambered for 2-3/4" shells, and have fixed right-modified and left-full chokes.

View attachment 1026579

Nice!
I too have a 1966 vintage 20 gauge Model B double trigger with extractors, 26" barrels. I love that old gun. It fits me and is enjoyable to shoot, just seems to hit what I'm looking at.

I find 20-gauge to be just right for a SxS.