Sidelock

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tom allum

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I need help. Got an old Belgian double 12. Typical sidelocks. Got them cleaned up but wont function properly. With spring relaxed hammer sits at half cock. Cocking hammer to full is ok. On pulling trigger hammer falls but only to halfcock. Tumbler shows previous use to “zero” cock in past. Also hammer will not fall to reach firing pin. I can’t figure it out. Happens with both locks exactly the same. Any advice or ideas? Thanks
 
Kind of sounds like the trigger is not lifting far enough to clear the half cock of tumbler. Guess it depends on type. Some will have interference if the trigger mechanism is not inletted deep enough.
 
Lock wont go to “no cock” even off the stock and no main-spring tension! Trigger not an issue then. With lock in hand
 
Check the bridle screws. Sounds like someone missassembled them. The wrong screw in the wrong hole will stop the hammer.
 
Is it a muzzleloader or break barrel? I'm thinking the latter because it has firing pins. If the locks are similar to belgium muzzleloader sidelocks, the hammers may both be installed incorrectly on the locks. The hammers fit on square ends of the tumbler axle. Probably just need to pull the hammers off the locks and put them back on the squares one position further forward.
 
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I’d thought of that abd triedit. It moves hammer 90 degrees which is way to far forward

i checked the bridal screws and they are not in the way or impinging

gun is a breech loader Damascus type gun. Black powder only
 
I'm not seeing a pic of it in full cock. There's another notch beyond what you are calling full cock. So, if shifting the hammers 90 degrees doesn't work, then they are either the wrong hammers, or wrong firing pins. I think you are never getting to full cock, and what you are calling half cock is a full stop. Just my observance, I could be wrong.
 
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I see 2 things here, the main springs are not giving full travel, when the lock is at full travel the bottom of the spring should be a lot closer to the edge of the lock plate. I believe this was originally a rebounding hammer set up which explains the 3rd notch in the tumbler. It basically keeps the hammer off the firing pin after the gun is fired. It's bit tougher to accomplish that with a stirrup on the spring. Looks to me like it has either weak main springs or they were somehow bent to the point where they are now. Try removing the springs and check the hammer travel and see where everything is clocked without spring tension. If it all checks out then you know it's a spring problem.
 
I see 2 things here, the main springs are not giving full travel, when the lock is at full travel the bottom of the spring should be a lot closer to the edge of the lock plate. I believe this was originally a rebounding hammer set up which explains the 3rd notch in the tumbler. It basically keeps the hammer off the firing pin after the gun is fired. It's bit tougher to accomplish that with a stirrup on the spring. Looks to me like it has either weak main springs or they were somehow bent to the point where they are now. Try removing the springs and check the hammer travel and see where everything is clocked without spring tension. If it all checks out then you know it's a spring problem.

I thought that also, about the springs, but both of them having the exact same issue? hmmmm
 
Both were obviously modified, try taking them out and see what the locks do as stated previously. Won't hurt to give it a try, another thought just occurred to me, could this gun have been in a restaurant or other business as a wall decoration and deliberately made to be non firing?
 
Well when I picked up the gun at a shop it was labeled “wallhanger” thebarrels were sound as was the lock up. The barrels were PAINTED. Black over a primer coat. Great job. I had a devil of a time getting it off! I got this as a project gun to occupy time for a long dark COVID winter and it proving itself.
Withe the spring off the tumbler does go forward and the hammer descends tothe firing pin.

does that mean the sprins are the issue?
 
Well when I picked up the gun at a shop it was labeled “wallhanger” thebarrels were sound as was the lock up. The barrels were PAINTED. Black over a primer coat. Great job. I had a devil of a time getting it off! I got this as a project gun to occupy time for a long dark COVID winter and it proving itself.
Withe the spring off the tumbler does go forward and the hammer descends tothe firing pin.

does that mean the sprins are the issue?
 
Does that mean the springs are the issue in each loc? Can they be replaced?
 

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In your first picture above, there are clearly 3 notches in that tumbler. I think the first notch, you are calling half cock, is the stop where the hammer rebounds, or it's simply a safety notch to keep the hammers off the the pins when the gun is loaded (vs having to use half cock). I think you are never getting to the full cock notch (none of your pictures show a lock in full cock), and for some bad reason you are able to trigger the hammer from half cock, and not getting the inertia you would from actual full cock. Perhaps the sear won't engage the full cock notch because of wear on the sear or the notch itself, has non-fitting replacement springs, or something, but from your pictures you are not getting to full cock. You may find the locks work perfectly if you get them to actual full cock and release them with primed shells in the chambers. You are about a century too late in finding replacement springs. MidwayUSA won't be carrying any. You could perhaps get some custom made, but that will exceed the value of an old belgian wall hanger by a long shot. Maybe it's just a wall hanger. Good luck. I'm done...
 
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The only thing I can suggest is to anneal the springs and rebend them back to a workable profile, then heat treat and temper back to original standard. It may tough to find someone with knowledge to do it. Jack First may have something if they are still around or possibly Gun Parts Corp also known as Numrich Arms.
 
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