Sierra Load Data for Smith & Wesson 500

[59WildBill]

I've got Sierra 350 gn JHP and Sierra 400 gn JSP bullets. I have two powders that are suitable, Hodgdon Lil Gun and H110. I downloaded the Sierra app and the starting loads for these projectiles seem very high compared to Lyman and Hodgdon load tables. Anyone else loading for Smith & Wesson 500 notice this? The Sierra app is the only source I can find for the 350 gn JHP. This bullet seems similar to Hornady 350 gn XTP. Load data for the Hornady 350 XTP has a max that is lower than the starting Sierra recommendation for 350 GB with the H110 powder. Lil gun starting load recommendation by Sierra is also very high. Anyone else notice this? Thoughts?

 

[BBarn]

The 500 S&W is very high pressure handgun cartridge (60,000 PSI), so I would stick close to pressure tested loads. If loading near maximum, I would use only data developed for the specific bullet selected.

I've observed that some data for high pressure handgun cartridges is held below max pressure due to issues related to the high pressures involved. Not sure if that's the case with your observations on the 500 Mag.

 

[Cheesemaker]

My Sierra manual (hardcopy) has:
350gr H110 39.0 to 41.2
350gr Lil Gun 37.3 to 41.2

400gr H110 - not listed
400gr Lil gun 31.5 to 36.6

Does the app provide the same numbers? These seem to be "in line" with the Hodgdon site info for the XTPs.
I typically use AA#9 in my 500 and use the Sierra numbers. I do not load at max though, usually start low and end at the mid-point.

Start low and work up if there is any doubt.(Not too low with H110).

 

[buck460XVR]

When they first came out, both the .500 and the .460 were loaded to max pressures to make the most from their potential. After a while, most factory loads and load recipes were reduced because of hard extraction and the fact that very few folks really need max from either. Thus, early recipes tend to be a bit more than newer ones. I caution against the use of Lil' Gun with such light bullets in your .500 iffin it's a revolver, due to known issues with excessive and premature forcing cone erosion.

 

[59WildBill]

My Sierra manual (hardcopy) has:
350gr H110 39.0 to 41.2
350gr Lil Gun 37.3 to 41.2

400gr H110 - not listed
400gr Lil gun 31.5 to 36.6

Does the app provide the same numbers? These seem to be "in line" with the Hodgdon site info for the XTPs.
I typically use AA#9 in my 500 and use the Sierra numbers. I do not load at max though, usually start low and end at the mid-point.

Start low and work up if there is any doubt.(Not too low with H110).

Here's what's in the Sierra app:
350 gn JHP
H110. START. 44.7 MAX: 47.2
LIL GUN. START: 50.0 MAX: 51.7

400 gn JSP
H110. START: 38.7 MAX: 42.8
LIL GUN. START: 40.3 MAX: 44.2

My numbers from the Sierra app seem to be much too high! I had seen in a different discussion thread that there higher load numbers in the 6th edition Sierra manual as compared to 5th edition. Which edition did your numbers come from? Im thinking I should contact Sierra. Your numbers are right in line with what I see in the Hodgdon load data.

 

[59WildBill]

The 500 S&W is very high pressure handgun cartridge (60,000 PSI), so I would stick close to pressure tested loads. If loading near maximum, I would use only data developed for the specific bullet selected.

I've observed that some data for high pressure handgun cartridges is held below max pressure due to issues related to the high pressures involved. Not sure if that's the case with your observations on the 500 Mag.

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I have been loading for years, but this is my first revolver and I'm concerned about getting the loads correct. I have witnessed a 500 magnum blow up (I was struck in the arm by half of the cylinder.)

 

[59WildBill]

When they first came out, both the .500 and the .460 were loaded to max pressures to make the most from their potential. After a while, most factory loads and load recipes were reduced because of hard extraction and the fact that very few folks really need max from either. Thus, early recipes tend to be a bit more than newer ones. I caution against the use of Lil' Gun with such light bullets in your .500 iffin it's a revolver, due to known issues with excessive and premature forcing cone erosion.

Thanks, are heavier bullets less of a problem with the Lil Gun? I just got 8lbs.

 

[Cheesemaker]

Here's what's in the Sierra app:
350 gn JHP
H110. START. 44.7 MAX: 47.2
LIL GUN. START: 50.0 MAX: 51.7

400 gn JSP
H110. START: 38.7 MAX: 42.8
LIL GUN. START: 40.3 MAX: 44.2

My numbers from the Sierra app seem to be much too high! I had seen in a different discussion thread that there higher load numbers in the 6th edition Sierra manual as compared to 5th edition. Which edition did your numbers come from? Im thinking I should contact Sierra. Your numbers are right in line with what I see in the Hodgdon load data.

That is quite a difference.
I purchased a 5th edition many years ago. After that I purchased a S&W500 and then noticed that this manual did not have info for the 500. I emailed Sierra and they sent me a PDF of the 500 data - this was in July 2017.The tile of the PDF page does say "RELOADING MANUAL 5th EDITION". The numbers I provided are from the PDF they sent me.

I think a call to Sierra is warranted. Let us know what you learn.

 

[sparkyv]

Yikes! I assumed one had to try really hard to do this ...

I have witnessed a 500 magnum blow up (I was struck in the arm by half of the cylinder.)

A well-known member of the blue S&W forum has indicated that one can't do this with a case full of H110 in the 460S&W...I just assumed that the 500S&W was similar.

 

[THEWELSHM]

I use 2400 and AA#9 about 31 grains with a 400 grain lead cast bullet. I’m not sure about the bullet product you are using, but that charge is throwing a flag up to me mate..a phone call and email is definitely warranted..

Stay safe mate..

Thewelshm

 

[59WildBill]

Yikes! I assumed one had to try really hard to do this ...



A well-known member of the blue S&W forum has indicated that one can't do this with a case full of H110 in the 460S&W...I just assumed that the 500S&W was similar.

Hello, I've just disassembled some Seirra 350 gn with 44.8 gn of H110. I fired off 5 of these without damaging my gun. But, my brother had another catastrophic failure with a S&W 500. This time with Hornady factory ammo. Early investigations seem to indicate timing issues.

 

[59WildBill]

I use 2400 and AA#9 about 31 grains with a 400 grain lead cast bullet. I’m not sure about the bullet product you are using, but that charge is throwing a flag up to me mate..a phone call and email is definitely warranted..

Stay safe mate..

Thewelshm

Thank you, yeah the powder charges in the Sierra app are a concern. I'll not be using their load data at this time. I'll let you guys know what they have to say about their info. BTW, I'm working with 350 grain Sierra jacketed soft points, 350 gn Lehigh xtreme penetrators and 420 gn penetrators. So far I've been staying with starting load recommendations.

 

[BigBoreBubba]

Hello, I've just disassembled some Seirra 350 gn with 44.8 gn of H110. I fired off 5 of these without damaging my gun. But, my brother had another catastrophic failure with a S&W 500. This time with Hornady factory ammo. Early investigations seem to indicate timing issues.

Was he firing double action or single? I tend to always fire the big bores in single action for fear of incorrect timing. For some reason, my 460 will tend to shake itself loose (mainly the ejector rod), and lock the cylinder up at times. It’s never happened with my Dad’s 500 though, and it digests a steady diet of full house loads from 400-700 grain. I’ve had screws work loose on both my 460 and M29 44. I also have a Taurus 4” M44 that has had thousands of full house loads put through it. It had timing issues after about 1500 rounds. Sent it in for repair and it came back slick! Almost as slick as my M29! Even though it had timing issues, I’ve never had any screws back out on it.
I noticed you said it has happened to your brother more than once. What was the cause the first time?

 

[sparkyv]

Same here. I used blue threadlocker to try to stop it from backing out. It works well on the frame screws, hopefully it'll work on the extractor rod.

For some reason, my 460 will tend to shake itself loose (mainly the ejector rod), and lock the cylinder up at times.

 

[59WildBill]

Was he firing double action or single? I tend to always fire the big bores in single action for fear of incorrect timing. For some reason, my 460 will tend to shake itself loose (mainly the ejector rod), and lock the cylinder up at times. It’s never happened with my Dad’s 500 though, and it digests a steady diet of full house loads from 400-700 grain. I’ve had screws work loose on both my 460 and M29 44. I also have a Taurus 4” M44 that has had thousands of full house loads put through it. It had timing issues after about 1500 rounds. Sent it in for repair and it came back slick! Almost as slick as my M29! Even though it had timing issues, I’ve never had any screws back out on it.
I noticed you said it has happened to your brother more than once. What was the cause the first time?

My brother's first catastrophic failure was with 420 gn Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator propelled by IMR 4227. Don't know how much powder he loaded it with but he had said his load weight was was in the middle of recomended values. At first he had thought he crimped the bullets too hard. He took many pictures of the gun. A lot of copper can be seen on the forcing cone, maybe this indicates a timing issue? My son fired dual action when the gun blew apart. I was shooting in the station to the left when half of the cylinder bounced off of the table and hit me in the forearm. Got a very ugly bruise. Very glad it didn't hit me in the side of my head.

So far 25 rounds have been fired through the gun without problem. All have been with recomended starting loads. 20 from Hodgdon data tables 5 from Sierra. In all 25 cases the primers were flattened. I've read that this is not a good indication of excessive pressure for this revolver. Cases came out of the cylinder easily. So far I have used only the H110 powder.

Lyman manual says this cartridge requires a heavy roll crimp. My crimps have been too light, I removed the cartridges after each time I shoot and looked at seeing depth. I have noticed bullets moving. I have put a little more crimp and will look for bullets moving next time I get out and shoot.

BTW, I called Sierra for technical advice about their load data. The fellow I talked to said that the published load data was carefully developed and that pressures were monitored. He did not have an explanation as to why these load numbers were so high. He did say he would pass my concerns on to appropriate specialists.

 

[BigBoreBubba]

My brother's first catastrophic failure was with 420 gn Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator propelled by IMR 4227. Don't know how much powder he loaded it with but he had said his load weight was was in the middle of recomended values. At first he had thought he crimped the bullets too hard. He took many pictures of the gun. A lot of copper can be seen on the forcing cone, maybe this indicates a timing issue? My son fired dual action when the gun blew apart. I was shooting in the station to the left when half of the cylinder bounced off of the table and hit me in the forearm. Got a very ugly bruise. Very glad it didn't hit me in the side of my head.

So far 25 rounds have been fired through the gun without problem. All have been with recomended starting loads. 20 from Hodgdon data tables 5 from Sierra. In all 25 cases the primers were flattened. I've read that this is not a good indication of excessive pressure for this revolver. Cases came out of the cylinder easily. So far I have used only the H110 powder.

Lyman manual says this cartridge requires a heavy roll crimp. My crimps have been too light, I removed the cartridges after each time I shoot and looked at seeing depth. I have noticed bullets moving. I have put a little more crimp and will look for bullets moving next time I get out and shoot.

BTW, I called Sierra for technical advice about their load data. The fellow I talked to said that the published load data was carefully developed and that pressures were monitored. He did not have an explanation as to why these load numbers were so high. He did say he would pass my concerns on to appropriate specialists.

Primers flattening is very common in the 500 and 460. They operate at extremely high pressure. Higher than a lot of rifles! They do require a heavy crimp. Bullet/crimp jump is definitely going to happen if they’re not crimped tight enough. It sounds like timing issues in both cases to me. As far as H110 goes, I’ve read that it’s nearly impossible to blow a 460 up with a full case of H110, given that everything is in good condition on the gun. I don’t know if that would be the case with the 500, due to thinner cylinder walls. I know I’d hate to have one of the big bores blow up on me! I hope it never happens. Good luck with it and be safe.

 

[59WildBill]

Im heading out to the range this afternoon. I've crimped my next set a little tighter with the same starting load of 33.1 grains H110. I'm using a Lee crimp die. This is a fun gun to shoot, I wish my brother hadn't blown up two of them. I need to get a couple hundred rounds through it for confidence.

 

[__steve__]

Maybe leave the 500 in the truck if your brother shows up?