It would have to be "selective fire" and come with long magazines to be of any practical value.
So the gun shop I work at got one of these things in today and all any of us (employees) could do was roll our eyes and make fun of this thing. It seems absolutely pointless to me and everyone I talked to. It's ridiculous looking, awkward, bulky and you can't legally put a stock or forward pistol grip on it. I'm just confused as to why adding this big clunky ugly looking thing to your handgun is an advantage in any way? Seriously nobody at the shop could come up with practical reason for this thing's existence. One of the dumbest things about this contraption is that it makes it near impossible to clear any sort of malfunction of the firearm because you can't gain access to the slide! I'm actually pretty disappointed in Sig, especially considering the MSRP on this thing is a staggering $369!
Sig ACP...I just don't get it!
- Thread starter nwilliams
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Take a Sig (already one of the bulkiest pistol platforms) and then add this pound or two (and even more bulk) contraption to it, and then add a buttstock (generally even the smallest are bigger than a normal sized service pistol) to one side of it, and how exactly is anyone supposed to conceal it under anything but a duffle bag?
There's more to concealment than just overall length.
Jinx D'jinn
Member
I suspect it will be used when TV reboots The Man From U.N.C.L.E. 
J_L_A
Member
Preserve away
FIVETWOSEVEN
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It's not about improving the pistol but how you handle it. Don't you think you could be more accurate with a pistol if it had a buttstock?
I'm not talking about something used in a IWB holster under a untucked T-Shirt but more of being used under a coat. People have carried sub machine guns that are bulkier under a suit coat successfully. I can carry my AK74 with a folding stock concealed under my normal winter jacket.
OP
OP
nwilliams
Member
Perhaps, but I'm not going to carry a handgun with a stock for personal protection. I'm accurate enough with my handguns without a stock at a logical defensive range. The only time I can see you wanting to get more accurate range out of handgun caliber weapon is in a tactical LE or military application and there are plenty of better choices out there than the ACP. As a civilian carrying for personal protection the ACP is completely impractical. As a LE or military person the ACP is completely impractical because it's changing the purpose of your sidearm (which is meant to be your sidearm) and making it more unreliable. In a LE or military application the ACP serves no function because there are more reliable options out there, for example the MP5, UMP, P90 or even a freakin' Uzi for that matter!
boricua9mm
Member
The point of this thing is for people wishing to build a unique SBR using a pistol that they already own as the base. Goofy? Well, we're all entitled to our own opinions. People have been adding stocks to pistols for over 100 years now. I'd call that a clue. Unnecessarily expensive? If you look at the other chassis style systems that are becoming available for pistols, this isn't really out of line with those options.
You'd be dead wrong if you think you can shoot as fast, as accurately, and as far with a pistol than you can a 9mm SBR. It's not really even open to debate. The ATF isn't the only one allowed to own SBRs. Again, you really don't seem to understand the NFA market that this thing is primarily intended for.
Ever wonder why rifle caliber "pistols" (ARs, AKs, etc.) sell? Ever wonder why guns like the SP89 and Uzi pistols sell? Most of the people who seek them out are doing so for NFA (Title 2) conversions. They're not sitting out at the range awkwardly trying to shoot them or deploy them for defensive purposes.
kcshooter
Member
I understand just fine, thank you. You seem to have trouble comprehending this, however.
There is no reason to refer to this as a SBR. It isn't. It's a pistol with a stock. Only the ATF would call this a SBR. There's not a longer barrel, it isn't an intermediate cartridge like .223 or 7.62x39, it's simply and only a pistol with a 5" or less barrel with a stock attached to it. (and again, a bunch of pointless, goofy rails)
I do not believe in any way that this is going to increase my shooting speed or accuracy to any measure worth the bother. Especially considering we're talking about a very mildly recoiling 9mm. I know this for a fact, so I'm not dead wrong at all. I own a 9mm PCC, and I assure you, there is no difference in speed or accuracy that would make any difference whatsoever in defensive use of this gadget.
And why would this have any difference in how far I can shoot? There isn't a longer barrel, there isn't an increase in velocity. At least with my PPC, there's a 16" barrel.
OK, so they are all unnecessarily expensive. $300 and up before the $200 tax stamp. Yeah, that seems reasonable, considering there is not a single benefit to this contraption unless you have some problem controlling a 9mm handgun..
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This device with a folding stock attached would be just as bulky, bulkier probably, than a contemporary small-format submachine gun like the TMP or similarly laid out weapons.
If you are in some sort of organization that doesn't have to follow the same rules private U.S. citizens do, and you have space to conceal this thing, you almost certainly have space to carry something like one of the many AR-platform options with short barrels, or a purpose-built machine pistol with a telescoping stock, or anything else you please that costs half what this would while delivering more practical value.
It's neat, and stocked pistols were always something I thought had a lot of old-school gadgety cool factor to them, but to take the position that this is anything but a toy for people with plenty of loot is a mistake. If you want it for practical purposes, there are literally hundreds of other weapons and products out there that will serve you better for less money, without entrapping your pistol in a cage that prevents you from reasonably carrying and concealing it like you could before you rigged it up.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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I see it more for Police on a budget than everyday Joe.
With less of the cost.
You seriously think that something that that is 15 inches long, 5 inches, and 24 ounces tall is just as portable as something that is around 23 inches long, around 8 inches tall, and 5.5 pounds. It only has a $400 MSRP and fits whatever pistol the Officer already carries. Not many Sub Machinegun style weapons are out there for $400.
Um what? It fits a railed fullsize pistol you already own, costs $400 MSRP ACP with a stock and another $200 to register the pistol. What do you get the other $1,900 from?
Here's the rest of it
This thing's not for me, but for information purposes only:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAA-RONI-Gl...021?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0341260d
This thing's not for me, but for information purposes only:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAA-RONI-Gl...021?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0341260d
On Ebay? that's a trip to club fed.
My guess is this will be seen in an upcoming sci fi feature soon.
Beyond that? Yawn.
My guess is this will be seen in an upcoming sci fi feature soon.
Beyond that? Yawn.
kcshooter
Member
Wow. Just, wow.
I wonder how many of these have been bought and used by completely unwitting soon-to-be felons.
I am absolutely stunned that there isn't so much as a mention of tax stamp requirements in this auction.
Does the seller not take on some responsibility here? Or is it all on the buyer?
I mean, WOW!
I think that neither would be readily concealable, and that was his point.
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$800 for your average Sig pistol.
$360-$400 for the cage.
~$200 for a stock (just guessing based on past offerings, I haven't been in the market for stand-alone subgun/pistol stocks beforez0
$200 for the stamp.
You're right, it's closer to $2000 than it is $2500.
But it's way more than $400, unless your Sig and stamp are free.
Oh and you'll need to buy yourself a new sighting system, since the previously functional ones on the pistol proper are now encased in Picatinny.
The device itself, with nothing else, is lighter, smaller, and cheaper than a machine pistol or short carbine.
Once you add the measurements for the pistol, that the device is kind of useless without, it starts getting awfully identical to the purpose-built weapons it 'competes' with. It's not competition for service pistols, because those are easily and conveniently carried on one's person.
This cannot be easily carried on one's person, not without making the same concessions that would make a carbine or actual submachine gun a more practical (and cheaper) choice.
$360-$400 for the cage.
~$200 for a stock (just guessing based on past offerings, I haven't been in the market for stand-alone subgun/pistol stocks beforez0
$200 for the stamp.
You're right, it's closer to $2000 than it is $2500.
But it's way more than $400, unless your Sig and stamp are free.
Oh and you'll need to buy yourself a new sighting system, since the previously functional ones on the pistol proper are now encased in Picatinny.
The device itself, with nothing else, is lighter, smaller, and cheaper than a machine pistol or short carbine.
Once you add the measurements for the pistol, that the device is kind of useless without, it starts getting awfully identical to the purpose-built weapons it 'competes' with. It's not competition for service pistols, because those are easily and conveniently carried on one's person.
This cannot be easily carried on one's person, not without making the same concessions that would make a carbine or actual submachine gun a more practical (and cheaper) choice.
Ebay isn't the issue.
It's the pistol stock accessory that, when possessed while possessing a compatible pistol, regardless of state of assembly, constitutes possession of a short barreled rifle.
If the buyer didn't get the stamp ahead of time, they are now a felon. Even if they never put the two together.
It's the pistol stock accessory that, when possessed while possessing a compatible pistol, regardless of state of assembly, constitutes possession of a short barreled rifle.
If the buyer didn't get the stamp ahead of time, they are now a felon. Even if they never put the two together.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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I can conceal my AK74 across my chest under my winter jacket, I could conceal this thing much easier.
Most railed full sized pistols will fit. Do you down a railed full size pistol already? Does the Police agency issue full size pistols with rails? There you go.
You can buy the ACP with a stock for $400, where do you get the extra $200?
I was talking about in a LE setting where they have no stamp but okay, it's $600 total for it. It's compatible with most pistols that most people that would be looking at this thing already own.
If you look at many sub machineguns and rifles carried by Police and Military, you'll find a nice little red dot sight sitting on top. Doesn't seem like that's an issue.
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Rock185
Member
SIG actually markets that??? Stand aside, once some of the Keyboard/Gunshop Commandos see that, there's going to be a rush, and you don't want to be injured. I wonder about things like that and AR-15, MP-5,.30Carbine, etc. pistols". Some of these designs make sense as SMGs, but they are Not SMGs, just giant, awkward semi-auto pstols. Friend had a Tec-9 "pistol". Total jammamatic and would sometimes fire in just chambering a round. Total trash. I would much rather have a quality pistol, or a carbine, than any of those giant,unwieldy type "pistols"'. An old partner of mine bought a pair of those .30 Carbine "pistols' with pistol grip, no stock, etc. I aked him what they're for. He said, "Survival". ????
FIVETWOSEVEN
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I don't think it will sell that much at all. SIG or not.
kcshooter
Member
Yeah, well, it's August.
I didn't say it was difficult to attach a sight system, and it does allow you to use better sights than conventional pistol sights, however, those Aimpoints, Eotechs, and Acogs cost as much as the pistol underneath.
Adds to the cost.
You already own or issue a compatible pistol.
Was it free?
If not, then that is a part of the cost for this as a weapon, regardless of when or who pays it.
I feel like reading the part of my post you quoted will answer your question quite handily. $200 was a guess based on the normal cost of decent quality or gimmicky but properly marketed stocks. I didn't know this device came with a stock as part of the base cost.
If you don't have a stamp before you buy it, maybe you want to buy one and try it out before you commit to creating an SBR like many tend to do with those Draco and AR-15 pistols, then you do have to buy a stock later.
I think you are intentionally being obtuse here. I also think, just based on your earlier size/weight comparison of the ACP to your rifle, where you conveniently forgot to include the dimensions and weight of anything other than the cage itself, that you aren't thinking through the position you are attaching your name to.
Sure, the ACP alone, or even with a pistol, is smaller and lighter than a carbine or even a TMP. Add a couple of pounds for the pistol, a little more if you go with the alloy framed models. Add some weight and considerable bulk (things that aren't all that bulky get that way with haste as you bolt them to each other) for the red dot up top, unless you go with one of the micro red dots.
Add a TON of bulk for the folding stock that'll about double the width of the thing.
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