Sig Frames Question - Exeter, NH or Germany?

[OregonJohnny]

I have a P220 Carry Elite Dark, produced sometime between late 2011 and early 2012. The frame says:

SIG SAUER INC.EXETER - NH
FRAME MADE IN GERMANY - SAUER

And my serial number reads: G XXX XXX, and there is also a "DE" above the SN.

But on Sig's website, their picture of the P220 Carry Elite Dark shows a frame marked:

SIG SAUER INC.
EXETER-NH-USA

With a serial number that reads: XXAXXXXXX, and no other markings.

In fact, in browsing through their website pictures of various models, it looks like the majority are not marked with anything about Germany.

So I'm assuming some frames are made in Germany and imported, and some are made in Exeter. If my frame was made in Germany, was the rest of the gun made in Exeter? Are there any 100% German-made Sig pistols currently being imported to the US? How can you tell if you have a German made gun?

Interestingly, my frame has the huge upswept beavertail, while the website pics of the Carry Elite Dark (with no German markings) show a stubbier beavertail. Is this the difference between German and US frames, at least on the Elite models?

Thanks for any input.

 

[5-SHOTS]

For what I know: a german made SIG-Sauer has "MADE IN GERMANY" on the slide.
When there's the written "FRAME MADE IN GERMANY" on the frame, it means that slide and barrel are made in USA.
There are some SIG-Sauer Pro with the written "FRAME MADE IN SWITZERLAND" on the frame, of which I don't know where barrel and slide are made (I bet in Germany).
However I could be not 100% correct.

 

[Robbins290]

Johnny, my p220 carry is the same way. Has a huge beaver tail but does not show one on the website with a German made frame. And my serial number is close to yours and around the same date. I'm not sure if all the frames are flawed, but my German made frame chips way top easy. I've had it for a year and a half, and it looks like I have carried it for 10 years.

 

[OregonJohnny]

When there's the written "FRAME MADE IN GERMANY" on the frame, it means that slide and barrel are made in USA.

That's what I figured.

I'm not sure if all the frames are flawed, but my German made frame chips way top easy. I've had it for a year and a half, and it looks like I have carried it for 10 years.

That's unfortunate. I don't carry mine, it stays in a nylon holster as a home defense gun, and only comes out to go to the range - so mine is still pretty scratch-free. Hopefully, the finish holds up better than yours has.

 

[CoThG]

Yours is a plain Jane Exeter Sig. Your frame is German, the rest of your gun is made and assembled in Exeter. That's not necessarily a good thing. The good Sigs are like what I have, ones made in West Germany. They have triple serial numbers and the German proof marks.

 

[9mmepiphany]

So I'm assuming some frames are made in Germany and imported, and some are made in Exeter. If my frame was made in Germany, was the rest of the gun made in Exeter? Are there any 100% German-made Sig pistols currently being imported to the US? How can you tell if you have a German made gun?

Your frame is made in Germany and all other parts are produced domestically.

The only all-German Sigs that I'm currently aware of are the X-5, X-6 and 210 legends...basically anything from their Master Shop

Interestingly, my frame has the huge upswept beavertail, while the website pics of the Carry Elite Dark (with no German markings) show a stubbier beavertail. Is this the difference between German and US frames, at least on the Elite models?

I'm glad to see they finally made the change to the stubbier tail beavertails...one of the long standing complaints of the original Elite beavertails was that they were too large

The original Elite beavertail was like this:



...which was quite a jump from this:



...which I see has now evolved to this:

 

[OregonJohnny]

Yes, mine has the larger beavertail like the one in the first photo. But, mine also came with the short trigger, while all the pictures show Sig's standard trigger. Does Sig put different parts into guns based on what's lying around, or is there a method to these little changes (triggers, beavertails, etc.)?

the rest of your gun is made and assembled in Exeter. That's not necessarily a good thing. The good Sigs are like what I have, ones made in West Germany.

Well, can you explain why Sigs made in the US are inferior to those made in Germany? Mine seems very tight and well made.

 

[CoThG]

Yes, mine has the larger beavertail like the one in the first photo. But, mine also came with the short trigger, while all the pictures show Sig's standard trigger. Does Sig put different parts into guns based on what's lying around, or is there a method to these little changes (triggers, beavertails, etc.)?



Well, can you explain why Sigs made in the US are inferior to those made in Germany? Mine seems very tight and well made.

No MIM parts in W. German Sigs. Significantly better manufacturing quality and QC. Better balance with stamped vs. forged slides. These are Sigs when Sigs got their reputation for "hell and back reliability". And for the most important reason that a West German Sig is better than an Exeter Sig...... They were made before the reign of decline under Ron Cohen.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Does Sig put different parts into guns based on what's lying around, or is there a method to these little changes (triggers, beavertails, etc.)?

The joke is that that is their method...whatever they have at hand. There were some stamped slide 228s a while back that were installed on 229 frames...and everyone said, "Guess they found a box of slides in the corner"

Well, can you explain why Sigs made in the US are inferior to those made in Germany? Mine seems very tight and well made.

I've never said that. I have a couple of CPO 220STs which are beautiful and reliable.

However, I do prefer the older stamped slide pistols because they just feel/look different (balance in the hand and the flat on top of the slide)

There were some issues when American made SIGs started
1. Extractor failure wtih the stainless slide 220s
2. Nitron issues...some too abrasive, some flaking off (CPOs)
3. Rough triggers on the phosphated internals
4. Heavy triggers on SRT equipped ones

 

[CoThG]

The joke is that that is their method...whatever they have at hand. There were some stamped slide 228s a while back that were installed on 229 frames...and everyone said, "Guess they found a box of slides in the corner"


I've never said that. I have a couple of CPO 220STs which are beautiful and reliable.

However, I do prefer the older stamped slide pistols because they just feel/look different (balance in the hand and the flat on top of the slide)

There were some issues when American made SIGs started
1. Extractor failure wtih the stainless slide 220s
2. Nitron issues...some too abrasive, some flaking off (CPOs)
3. Rough triggers on the phosphated internals
4. Heavy triggers on SRT equipped ones

Hence the term "FrankenSig"

 

[sigarms228]

Yes, mine has the larger beavertail like the one in the first photo. But, mine also came with the short trigger, while all the pictures show Sig's standard trigger. Does Sig put different parts into guns based on what's lying around, or is there a method to these little changes (triggers, beavertails, etc.)?



Well, can you explain why Sigs made in the US are inferior to those made in Germany? Mine seems very tight and well made.

No evidence to support such - just peoples opinions. Early W German P226s had a penchant to crack their frames. Slides are more durable on new classic P series SIGs to support pressures of .40/.357 SIG though carbon steel folded slides are plenty durable for 9MM and .45 if breech block pins are changed at 5000 round intervals. No breech block used on stainless steel slides.

I have more than a few of each and they are all awesome.

As far as MIM parts. They have been used in SIGs for a long time. Even some of the later German made P210s had MIM parts. MIM parts are used by ALL manufactures of mass produced pistols and have been for more than a few years now. MIM is widely used in aircraft and automotive industry.

German made frames have single letter prefix to serial number while US made frames have double letter prefix.

 

[CoThG]

No evidence to support such - just peoples opinions. Early W German P226s had a penchant to crack their frames. Slides are more durable on new classic P series SIGs to support pressures of .40/.357 SIG though carbon steel folded slides are plenty durable for 9MM and .45 if breech block pins are changed at 5000 round intervals. No breech block used on stainless steel slides.

I have more than a few of each and they are all awesome.

As far as MIM parts. They have been used in SIGs for a long time. Even some of the later German made P210s had MIM parts. MIM parts are used by ALL manufactures of mass produced pistols and have been for more than a few years now. MIM is widely used in aircraft and automotive industry.

German made frames have single letter prefix to serial number while US made frames have double letter prefix.

Only the ones with "mud rails" were prone to cracking. Ask Bruce Gray which ones are better.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Early W German P226s had a penchant to crack their frames.

These were only the 226 slides with the mud cuts...cuts in the rail that allowed mud to be moved out of the way