Sig Sauer 250......How long until its discontinued ?

[phantomak47]

Lets have a productive discussion about Sig and the p250. I own two sigs and while I love them, I just don't think the P250 is going to be around in the long run. There isn't much excitement around this gun and while its a neat idea, I think most people would rather buy another gun then buy a modular system.

I just dont see it as either replacing the Classic series (it wasnt intended to ) or really provide something that people want . Thoughts

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

If it wasn't DAO --might have to give it another look---otherwise --whatever.

The Sig one magazine thing won't fly either---most new Sigs are pushin $1000---and you're too cheap to throw in another mag??? Gimme a break.

 

[Weedmonk]

It is my understanding that the primary marketing intent for the Sig P250 is for countries with gun ownership restrictions that limit the number of firearms. Obviously, the concept of modular handguns isn't new. Heckler & Koch introduced the HK4 in 1967. In essence, the HK4 was a Mauser HSc design that offered the added benefit of interchangable barrels and magazines for .22lr, 25acp, 32acp, and .380acp. (The 22lr conversion also required changing the extractor and firing pin.) In spite of very nice packaging, the HK4 wasn't very popular in the USA. Without the stimulus of laws that would motivate the purchase of a modular platform, I personally don't believe the Sig P250 will have great success in the USA either.

In respect to the general direction of Sig, they appear to placing a great deal of emphasis on cosmetic features that don't appeal to me. I own four Sigs. Two W. German P220s and two recent production P239s (both DA/SA). I don't plan on purchasing any of the "new" stuff. I also believe that the recent policy of shipping with one magazine will really annoy new customers.

 

[wditto]

hopefully there are a lot more overseas customer than U.S. so they will succeed - we don't want them to fail and the congress take over them

 

[23Glock]

It's a good idea, very poorly executed and overpriced. I bought into the hype and was sorely disappointed. Averaged between an 8-10% failure rate in 3000 rounds I put through it. It just has a lot of bugs that need to be worked out. I loved the ergonomics, but that's all it had going for it. But then again, Sig has had a lot of quality problems in general recently, so it might not just be this platform.

 

[Gun Slinger]

I always wait a year for a new gun design to get the "bugs" ironed out.

Well over a year later, there seems to be no improvement over what problems the P250 initially demonstrated. I like the feel of the P250, its ergs and appearance, but cannot get past the "QA/QC issues".

Not buying one.

 

[paintballdude902]

honestly i like it but its too expensive. if the gun was the same price, added 1 more mag, and then made the frames and slides cheaper, id be all over it

 

[Runningman]

I for one just don't think Sigs are what they used to be in the 80s and 90s.

Sig Sauer was sold in late 2000 it seemed like Quality Control and standards started going down hill within a couple years after it was sold.

The Sig Trailside, SIG Mosquito 22s and now the P250 are very shaky for not so cheap guns. But even some of the classics such as P220 seem to have their fair share of issues these days.

My local gun shop only stocks a few of the Sig models he has had the least trouble with. When I inquired about the P250 last Summer he stated he would not even order one for me because they had to many issues.

 

[phantomak47]

I am seeing a difference between a 2002 ish 226 and a 2009 226, plastic guide rod(see my thread on it) , non solid trigger (somewhat skeltonized). There just seems to a bit of difference in the other all feel of the two guns.

 

[colorado_handgunner]

Looked at one and didn't see the quality for the money vs a Springfield, etc. Too bad.

 

[10-Ring]

I think the 250 is the way of SIGs future -- revised sigpro w/ nice grip & trigger pull. IMO, it may take a few more gens before it really catches on, but it will be around for a while

 

[AK103K]

I just picked one up a week or so ago in 9mm. At first I thought I'd made a mistake, but now I'm already looking to pick up another.

I've got about 400 rounds through it so far with no problems at all. Accuracy is typical SIG, and the DA trigger is VERY nice.

I plan to pick up one of the 357SIG conversions when they become available, and another gun in the same caliber.

My only complaint is the rear sight doesnt have the white outline on the dots. The one mag thing aint all that great, but whats the difference? They either give you two and raise the price or you buy the second mag. Eiter way you pay.

Price wise, its one of the cheaper SIG's I've bought of late, and didnt seem to be at all out of line. Other than maybe a spare barrel in .40, which I assume will swap like the others, but no one seems to be able to confirm, I dont see much point in getting more than one of the conversion kits at this point. I'll just get another gun. I'd rather spend a little more and have two working guns than have one gun and bunch of non working half guns sitting around.

One plus to the P250(C) is, it will fit in my P229 holsters and the mags fit the same carrier, so theres one less set of gear you have to buy.

 

[MDW GUNS]

SIG Sauer or Sigarms changed owners how many times in the last 5 years alone?
SIG Sauer USA is a true German story with no happy end!
At this time, I would only buy a new production 556 rifle form this company.

Every new SIG Sauer product has similar problems:
1. Quality problems.
2. Function problems.
3. Overpriced.
4. Now only one magazine.

SIG Sauer is living off their old glory and their technically are way behind with most products.
The very bias Sig Forum is not exactly any help there either.
The CPO drove away the last dealers.
If Sig Sauer wants to get back to the top they:
1. Quit the "Dealer Direct" program and sell through traditional channels.
2. Deliver every gun with 3 magazines and a holster or some nice little gift!
3. Cut prices.
4. Get to the drawing board and come up with something really new!

The P250 is a failure in the US and will never rise to even the sales of the P239!

 

[AK103K]

Every new SIG Sauer product has similar problems:
1. Quality problems.
2. Function problems.
3. Overpriced.
4. Now only one magazine.

Other than #4, what are you basing the rest on? Personal experience? If so, what guns and how many and specifically what was the problem with them?

I have "old" SIG's and "new" SIG's, and have yet to see the problems you've listed other than #4, and thats only been with the most recent gun. Even my Mosquito, which I got when they first arrived, has been fine, and so far, reliably shoots pretty much anything I feed it. Something, according to the internet experts, isnt supposed to be possible.

... and their technically are way behind with most products.

Care to elaborate?

If Sig Sauer wants to get back to the top they:
1. Quit the "Dealer Direct" program and sell through traditional channels.
2. Deliver every gun with 3 magazines and a holster or some nice little gift!
3. Cut prices.
4. Get to the drawing board and come up with something really new!

#1...do I detect some bitterness here? What, wont they let you be a dealer?

#2...How many other makers do this?

#3...That would be nice, what do you suggest?

#4...The P250 seems to be pretty innovative. Who else has something similar or in the same "new" ballpark?

The P250 is a failure in the US and will never rise to even the sales of the P239!

Time will tell. We'll see.

 

[TurboFC3S]

This recent wave of Sig bashing is just idiotic, and typical internet drama. So they went to one mag and plastic guide rods ... big deal. Nobody ever says, "Awesome, my new sig has a bottle of Miltec and some TW25B in it". That's a nice little gift if you ask me. Some of my CZ's and my Beretta have a plastic gude rod too, and crappy cases with no 'goodies', so lets bash them too.

I buy and love Sigs because they are simply a higher level of craftsmanship than anything else I've seen. Right now I have 12 Sig pistols and a 556, love them all. My only complaint with any of them is they can be very tight out of the box, so tight that some reloads don't return to battery. The kind of tightness people pay $3000 for in a 1911. They make my older West German Sigs feel sloppy by comparison.

Some of the dealer and pricing issues are more 'real', but has nothing to do with the product they're delivering. I don't own a P250 yet, but have been considering one for some time. I've shot one in 9mm and did like it, I'm just not a DAO poly gun fan.

 

[Dougsboy]

I recently purchased a fullsize P250 in 45acp. I like the way it feels in my hand. At first I wasn't too sure with the DAO but after lots of rounds through it I was somewhat more liking to it. I hope it doesn't go by the wayside. I have thought about selling it and getting a P220 in 45acp. I still might.

 

[Rodentman]

I bought a P229 in .357 sig and a .40 barrel. I have a Glock 17 with a .22lr conversion kit. So I don't have a .45 but I am happy with those choices. I alost bought a P250 but changed my alleged mind.

 

[chabanais]

I think they invested too much in it to drop it.

 

[Kind of Blued]

I think this gun makes a ton of sense for police departments where you need to cater to 300lb. guys and 120lb. women while spending as little money as possible.

In the U.S. civilian world, aka the biggest consumer of handguns on the planet, it's more of a novelty.

 

[HexHead]

Kimbers have cost close to $1000 and only come with one magazine for quite a while now. So SIG isn't breaking any new ground here.

I can't help but wonder if SIG came out with this for countries where you're only allowed one handgun? Maybe they were being preemptive thinking the Obamination would try to put something like that in place?

After all, Para Ordinance moved their entire company to North Carolina thinking import rules might tighten up.

 

[rellascout]

AK103... you clearly do not know what you are talking about in terms of Sig. They have screwed up big time and the current management group is going to drive them into the ground just like they did with Kimber.

Look over at the Sig Forum. Ordnance Outsellers built their business on Sig and now are no longer carrying them do to the broken direct sales model. He is not the only one moving away from stocking Sig. My local dealer dumped them. They make them buy the entire line to get CPOs. Then they cannot even ask for a certain model or type. They simply get whatever Sig sent them. My favorite Sig dealer Wild West Guns dropped their 1911s even though he is a fan because he cannot get them when he wants them and he would rather sell other brands without the hassle.

Sig is killing their own commercial market.

As for the P250 I had one. It was a decent gun but way too expensive for something that does not out perform the Glock 19/Glock 26. It has a reallllllllllllllllllllly long trigger pull and reset. It is very smooth but the reset sucks IMHO. If they do not get a huge Govt contract they will go the way of the Sig Pros......

Sig Arms (US Company) has been moving this direction ever since they change from an importer of German pistols to a manufacturer. IT all goes back to Mr. Kimber. I also agree with the statements that they are trading on the German Companies rep. Too many people do not know the history and the real changes that have taken place.

 

[TurboFC3S]

Too many people do not know the history and the real changes that have taken place.

And I suppose you know the real story don't you? Give me a break ... the CEO's name is Rob Cohen, not Mr. Kimber. He was a big part of Kimbers success, and the quality products they've been putting out for a long time. He has a pretty solid background in the industry, in fact their whole management team is pretty solid.

http://www.sigsauer.com/AboutUs/Management.aspx

So Jerry stopped carrying Sig, so what ... that's between him and Sig. Every storefront around here has no problem keeping racks full of Sigs, and I've had no problem buying the ones I want at prices I want. But if a dealer can't get stock of what he wants quickly enough, how is the crazy demand these days Sig's problem?

The only complaints I've heard are one mag and plastic guide rods. Sure there are occasional real problems, just like ANY gun on the market, but anecdotal evidence shows nothing. I'd still wager that the percentage of Sig problem guns is the same or lower than most other manufacturers, and the Sig's that are right (vast majority of them) are simply higher quality firearms than other stuff available.

... I love, and have had ZERO problems with all 12 of my Sigs.

 

[rellascout]

I am glad you are still drinking the kool aid. Mr. Kimber also was responsible for turning Kimber into a second rate 1911 manufacturer by increasing volume over quality.

Kimber is no longer in the top 3 of production 1911s. his management was directly responsible for that change.

I have owned more than enough Sigs over the years to know that they have changed. I would not trade any of my W. German Sigs for anything pushed out of Exter these days.

They are giving you less and charging more with their MAP pricing and I am sorry but giving me $5 worth of lube I do not need or use does not make up for the loss of a mag which they want to charge $35 for. It also does not make up for the short cuts, on the P250, Mosquito, 556 and others.

Sig is going down hill and those who know the real story know this to be true. Sig is not higher quality that Glock, CZ, HK or FN... They are still a good pistol but they have abandoned the things that they made their bones on.

P.S. Mr Silver is one of the most arrogant blowhards I have ever had the pleasure of conversing with. For a man who is a VP in charge of commercial sales he seems to understand nothing about how to deal with customers. Diane Chapman Queen of customer service, who also came from Kimber is even worse.

 

[AK103K]

AK103... you clearly do not know what you are talking about in terms of Sig. They have screwed up big time and the current management group is going to drive them into the ground just like they did with Kimber.

All I know is, I'm currently on SIG #17, more of which are now the newer guns, and I have yet to have any problems with any of them. This includes an early Mosquito and an early P220 Carry, both of which have been flawless, and both of which are not supposed to work according to the whiners and internet experts.

I couldnt care less what their management does, as long as the guns I buy keep working like the others I have, I'll continue to buy them.

I do know for a fact from your many posts, that you seem to have some sort of hair up your butt and a personal vendetta towards SIG, and will whine to any and all present at any opportunity. If there are any doubters, a quick search will show that. I dont know what your issues are, but you lost any credibility with me a long while back.

As for the P250 I had one. It was a decent gun but way too expensive for something that does not out perform the Glock 19/Glock 26. It has a reallllllllllllllllllllly long trigger pull and reset. It is very smooth but the reset sucks IMHO. If they do not get a huge Govt contract they will go the way of the Sig Pros......

From your complaints, I see your one of the specialty shooters that requires a specific trigger to be able to shoot. Me, I never knew "reset" was a problem until I heard all the whining about it on the internet. Seems these days, if you dont have a bunch of the latest and greatest crutches on your toys, they just wont shoot right, and since you cant do it, nobody else can either.


Sorry, I dont buy it. I shoot your basic, plain Jane, box stock DA SIG's, most all with night sights, and have never had any problems shooting them as they come. The new guns shoot just as well as the older ones. I'm not one of the old vs new snobs, I'm happy to have any of them and I shoot them all without prejudice.

If things are as bad as you complain, I'd suggest selling all your remaining SIG's ASAP and get into something that you can live with, both physically and mentally.


As far as SIG forum goes, I dont stop by there to much anymore, mostly because of stuff like this. All they need over there is some cheese.

 

[rellascout]

I never said I could not shoot lights out with my P250 I just believe it is not better than a Glock 19 which I can get for $200 cheaper with 3 mags.

I am happy to hear that your Sigs have run. Lots of other people's have not. In my time I have owned:

P220 W. German X3
P220 SAS (Dog of a pistol which went back to sig)
P250 in 9mm (Sold due to trigger.)
P228 W. German X2
P239 in 357 Sig & 40 S&W
P226 Navy Original NSW not the UU
P226 Tactical with custom work by Bruce Gray
Gen 1 GSR 1911 which ran well once I had the extractor pin replaced because it was walking out on its own.
P229 in 40 S&W
P225 W. German with custom trigger job to smooth out the DA.

I mean look at the P250 which started this thread. Do you remember how many rounds the 9mm version was supposed to hold in a the mag? Answer 17 +1 How many does it hold now? 15+1.

Do you know why? They could not get the 17th round into the mag. They sold it and let it go to the marketplace as a 17 round pistol but then had to back track.

Remember the tu-toned, 556s with canted rails?

PS AK you are the #1 sig apologist here on THR. Keep it up I am sure they appreciate it. Oh and we do not miss you on the Sig forum.