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Silly but a good question...

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by BP Hunter, Dec 12, 2012.

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  1. BP Hunter

    BP Hunter Member

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    Anyway, I have never purchased a firearm outside my state of residence. I have purchased a good number of firearms online and had them trasferred in a local FFL of my state of residence. Is it possible for me to go out of state and purchase a firearm in that state I do not reisde in?

    Thanks for youe answers.
     
  2. Hunterdad

    Hunterdad Member

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    That would be a negative. You would need to transfer it to an FFL within your state.
     
  3. kimbershot

    kimbershot Member

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    contiguous state long gun purchase in sc ok--other states--gotta check your state laws. handguns--not ok nationwide--gotta go through ffl transfer. spoke with dealers in ga--more than happy to mail guns to sc dealer at priority mail cost--you would be responsible for transfer fee.
     
  4. smalls

    smalls Member

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    You can purchase long guns from an FFL and take them with you, as long as the gun us legal in both states.

    You may purchase a handgun, but it must be shipped to an FFL in your home state.
     
  5. 45_auto

    45_auto Member

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    If it's a handgun, you need to transfer it through a FFL in your state. No options there.

    If it's a rifle or shotgun, you'll need to check the laws of your state and the state where you're buying the long gun. For instance, Louisiana allows me to purchase a long gun anywhere as long as it complies with the other state's laws. Some states allow out of state residents to purchase, some don't. Some states only allow you to purchase long guns in neighboring states.

     
  6. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Wow, so much misinformation already....

    The contiguous state limitation went away in 1986.

    Long guns can be received from an FFL in any state so long as the transaction complies with both the recipient's state laws and the state laws of the FFL.

    Handguns must be shipped to an FFL in the state of residence of the recipient for transfer.

    Sources: 18 USC 922 (a)(3), (a)(5), (b)(3) and the ATF Newsletter to FFLs of February 2011.

    If there is an outdated state law on the books that says contiguous state purchase/sales are allowed, those laws are now meaningless unless they also specifically prohibit an action.

    This same question gets asked about twice a month...the answers should just be made a sticky, IMHO.
     
  7. BP Hunter

    BP Hunter Member

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    OK Navy, since we are of the same state - WA. What are the State and Federal Laws on purchasing a long gun or handgun out of state?
     
  8. chhodge69

    chhodge69 Member

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  9. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Washington State Law:

    RCW 9.41.122
    Out-of-state purchasing.

    Residents of Washington may purchase rifles and shotguns in a state other than Washington: PROVIDED, That such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968, Title IV, Pub. L. 90-351 as administered by the United States secretary of the treasury: AND PROVIDED FURTHER, That such residents are eligible to purchase or possess such weapons in Washington and in the state in which such purchase is made.

    RCW 9.41.124
    Purchasing by nonresidents.

    Residents of a state other than Washington may purchase rifles and shotguns in Washington: PROVIDED, That such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968, Title IV, Pub. L. 90-351 as administered by the United States secretary of the treasury: AND PROVIDED FURTHER, That such residents are eligible to purchase or possess such weapons in Washington and in the state in which such persons reside.

    Federal Law:
    18 USC § 922 - Unlawful acts
    (a) It shall be unlawful—
    (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

    (a) It shall be unlawful—
    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides;

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
    (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States),
     
  10. 45_auto

    45_auto Member

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    The NSSF (National Shooting Sports Foundation) has a list of contiguous state long gun purchase restrictions here:

    http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/ContiguousStateRestrict.pdf
     
  11. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    And, in most cases, they would be wrong. For example, Colorado Statute:

    Notice the Colorado Statute prohibits ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Do you see the word unlawful or prohibited in the statute anywhere? NO.

    From the ATF:

    http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2011-02.pdf

    "A number of States patterned their laws after the original provision of the GCA that allows nonresidents to purchase long guns from FFLs only in contiguous states. Many of those States have not revised their laws to reflect the 1986 amendments to the GCA that allow over-the-counter sales of long guns to residents of any State, as outlined above. This has caused confusion among FFLs, who often read such “contiguous state” State laws as prohibiting sales to residents of noncontiguous states.

    ATF does not read State laws that refer to “contiguous states” as prohibiting sales of long guns to residents of noncontiguous states unless the language contained in that State’s law expressly prohibits residents from acquiring firearms outside that State. Thus, if the language in the State laws authorizes sales of long guns to residents of contiguous states, that State law also authorizes the sale of long guns to residents of all other states."



    So, a Colorado resident purchases a rifle from an FFL in Washington State. Exactly what statute/law has been broken? NONE.
     
  12. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    And here is another example of the errors on that webpage.

    Oregon statute:

    An Oregon resident receives a rifle from an FFL in Wyoming.... again, exactly which statute/law is broken? NONE. Because the statute does not contain any prohibitions.
     
  13. 45_auto

    45_auto Member

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    Did you read 12-27-102 (a):

    Know what happens to your FFL if you're a Denver dealer and sell an AR15 to a California resident, just as one example?
     
  14. leadchucker

    leadchucker Member

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    ....
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  15. Nickel Plated

    Nickel Plated Member

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    BTW as I understand it correctly. The Federal law only talks about state laws when saying "as long as it's legal in the sellers and purchaser's state"?

    As a hypothetical. I live in NYC. Where ALL firearms, including rifles and shotguns, require a city issued permit to own, or even just hold. Where as NY State law allows shotguns and rifles to be purchased with no permit pretty much as easily as in most of the US.

    So according to federal law, could I go to PA and purchase a rifle there and bring it back to NY with me? It's legal by PA's state law and it's legal by NY's STATE law (even though NYC law forbids it)
    I know bringing it down to the city would be breaking the city law but that's a separate matter.

    PS: NY state does have an AWB in place so for this scenario we'll just assume I'm purchasing something that's not an AW.
     
  16. medalguy

    medalguy Member

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    Note to .45 Auto: Last time I looked California wasn't contiguous to Colorado.

    To OP: Is it POSSIBLE to buy a firearm outside your state and take possession? (I assume that's what you are asking) Certainly. I've witnessed such transactions numerous times. Is it LEGAL to do so? Most definitely not.
     
  17. Blackrock

    Blackrock Member

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    I live in Arizona and have purchased long guns in Nebraska, South Dakota, Montana and Wyoming while out travelling. Two purchases were FTF and the rest were store bought.

    Two sales were at Cabelas stores and the counter clerk told me there was no problems.
     
  18. BK

    BK Member

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    His post was about following law in both states, not about being contiguous, which is not required by Colorado law.
    This is not accurate at all. Can you cite a law that would prohibit the OP from purchasing a rifle in Texas being that he is a resident of Washington state?
     
  19. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Then, for one, the Denver FFL violates Federal law because California law requires a DROS background check, which the Denver FFL cannot complete, and likely the AR-15 would be banned in California as an assault weapon unless it was modified.. Thus the sale violates Federal law 18 USC 922 (b)(3) which I quoted above.

    Again, Colorado state law does not, and never has, prohibited rifle/shotguns sales to non-contiguous states, such as Montana or Texas. What did prohibit the sale was a Federal law that was amended in 1986 to remove the contiguous requirement.

    So, Mr. 45_Auto, leaving the "gun control" states out, such as California, again, I challenge you to show us which law is violated if a Denver FFL sells a rifle or a shotgun to a Montana or Texas resident? Which PROHIBITION is violated? Which law contains the PROHIBITION?

    Is it legal for you to wear black socks with orange sandals? Why is it legal? What law says it is legal to do so? There isn't any law that says it is legal to wear black socks with orange sandals. It's legal because there is no law prohibiting it. There is a law which allows you to drive a motor vehicle on public streets if you have a driver's license. Does that mean that it is illegal to ride a bicycle? The driver's license statute does not specifically allow it....

    Which is exactly why it is legal for a Denver FFL to sell a rifle or shotgun to a Montana or Texas resident. Because the law that did prohibit it went away in 1986.
     
  20. BP Hunter

    BP Hunter Member

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    It looks like I can buy long guns in OR. Splendid...no tax.:D
     
  21. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Absolutely, however, when returning to Washington with your out of state purchase, Washington law says that you must pay a use tax on the item, equivalent to the Washington state sales tax rate.
     
  22. smalls

    smalls Member

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    This is also Federal law.
     
  23. BP Hunter

    BP Hunter Member

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  24. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    That's the same law that Washington is enforcing by requiring FFLs to collect tax on firearms they receive from out of state for transfer that were purchased from out of state private parties. It's one of the few ways the state can actually collect a use tax.
     
  25. 45_auto

    45_auto Member

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    There's no difference by federal law, which is Mr. navylcdr's whole point. That's why you need to be familiar with the laws of each state.

    http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2011-02.pdf

     
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