since goex is gone i had to buy schuetzen Question?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by midland man, Aug 7, 2022.

  1. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Yes, Goex is not "bad". It seemed to me, just my impression, that Goex improved in quality over the years. I've shot a lot of Swiss, went through a whole case of it once, it really is top quality. Clean and powerful, worth the price.

    I recently bought a bunch of Schuetzen, (and Swiss) 4fg for my pistols and 1fg for my musket. The musket has a big appetite and I didn't think using Swiss would be of much advantage. I have not tried the 1fg yet, but did fire off a pistol with the 4fg. It was fine, but noticeably more fouling, and just judging from the recoil, was actually "softer" shooting than an equal charge of Swiss 2fg. I found that interesting, I would expect any 4fg to pop off harder than an equal charge of any 2fg.
     
  2. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    I plan to try making it. In fact, my recent powder-purchase was/is to hold me over until I can make some of decent quality. It is said, or rumored, or the "word on the street" is, that you can make it just as good, but that it takes some experience and expertise to do that. So I'm going to try. Also, for my musket, top quality is not required. Just making some "decent" powder to feed the musket's appetite would be worth the trouble for me. I don't shoot my rifles and pistols that much or that often that I can't use store-bought. Also, they say, and it makes sense to me, that if you make it in small batches it is not dangerous.
     
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  3. Blackpowderwarrior

    Blackpowderwarrior Member

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    I know what you mean about rifles and shotguns ingesting a lot of powder. Thats why my Red label goex is strictly for my shotguns and rifles and BP cartridges. I keep my old eyensford for the pistols.

    in my rifle my accuracy load is 60 grains of 3f Red label goex and in my .58 bobby hoyt smoothbore she gets the same in the form of a square load with #5 shot.

    im a big fan of Old Eynesford and i hope its still available in the same formula and every bit as fast if not faster when Estes re emerges with their powder.

    I shoot goex because i buy it in the case when available, but i wouldnt hesitate to buy a case of swiss if available and i didnt have any powder.

    That being said I will gladly support Estes Energetics primarily unless they produce a sub par product.
     
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  4. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Oh yeah, I would buy more Goex/future Goex if it is priced right. You are more economical with your powder than I, I was shooting 110 grains of 2fg Swiss in my .62" Jeager, but I got some 1.5fg Swiss that I'll be trying with 120 grains, which could be my new hunting load. Don't really have an accuracy load for that rifle, I figure anything close to 3" or even 4" at 100 yards will keep them in the vital zone.

    My .58's seem to shoot best with charges of 80-90 grains of 3fg Goex. Now that is gone, so I'll have to do some experimenting with 2fg Swiss. 80 grains by weight should not give me any surprises. When I got this last re-supply, they were out of Swiss 3fg. I plan to run back up to Sandpoint and pick up two pounds of 3fg Swiss on one of the motorcycles when I have the time, cooler weather, motivation and they have it back in stock.

    My Brown Bess I was using 140 grains of 1fg Goex but ran out, so I got a big batch of 1fg Scheutzen for it. 140 grains per shot kind of goes through the powder. Not economical. ! I don't expect to see any difference between it and Goex, in that large of a bore smooth bore. Believe it or not, in my Bess, the heavy charges give much better accuracy than more "reasonable" charges. She'll hit the vital zone and "knock over" anything within 50 yards.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
  5. brewer12345

    brewer12345 Member

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    I hope estes revives olde eynesford. Very good, clean, energetic powder and the price was less than Swiss.
     
  6. dave951

    dave951 Member

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    I used Old E for quite a while before the youth black powder project I work with was snubbed by Goex but Schuetzen had no issues donating powder or caps. Goex wouldn't even return an email or phone call. I switched to Swiss and haven't have any reason to go back. Unless and until Estes changes how the previous owners administered the brand, I'm going to stay with those who support working with kids.
     
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  7. dave951

    dave951 Member

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    And since we have a snarky reply, here's one back. Goex has blown up like clockwork about every 3 years. Schuetzen doesn't seem to afflicted with that problem. The brand "Goex" has been sold a couple times but the new owners never upgraded the equipment in the process whaddayaknow, here comes another accident. Now for the "buy American" crowd, I get it, but not at the expense of continued accidents in pursuit of the almighty dollar and profit by not upgrading to safer equipment. I really don't like corporate cynicism and just like with the Ford Pinto, the owners of Goex seemed to not be too bothered by accidents so long as the gov contracts were flowing because a bean counter cost/benefit analysis says so.

    You have no idea what would be "Ok" with me and to make such a claim is downright stupid and offensive.

    My beef with Goex is lack of support for domestic youth shooting programs AND a poor safety record. I shot Old E, a Goex product, for years before Swiss became commonly available. Couple that with the FACT that Schuetzen supports US youth black powder shooting sports programs, something Goex NEVER did, and I'll support those who support kids. IF Estes is going to be a responsible new owner of the Goex brand, then they will upgrade to modern, much safer, equipment. My information is that is exactly what is being done and the Goex brand will be back available for domestic consumption about next March. They are already in production right now, but are filling gov contracts first. If you think we muzzleloader guys are their only and largest customer, you'd be seriously sadly mistaken. The US military/industry are by far, the largest consumers of black powder and that's why I had no doubt that somebody domestic was going to step up and restart production and the big buck orders get filled first. We'll see how Estes conducts business in the future and if they can make powder like Schuetzen can without having regular accidents. If they start to support kids as well, then, I'll reconsider. Till then, no.
     
  8. hawg

    hawg Member

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    Seems to me your biggest beef is you can't get free bp.
     
  9. Blackpowderwarrior

    Blackpowderwarrior Member

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    @dave951 Resentments and bitterness rotten the soul of a man, they steal many years off ones life.
    Im saying this with love Dave. Give it up. Forgive Hodgdon for whatever wrongs you feel theyve done to you. Forgive them for yourself man .... you owe it to yourself
    forgiveness sets the heart free from bitterness and resentments.
    Let that heart of stone be turned to a heart of flesh.

    If no ones told you they loved you today brother, let me be the first. I Love you brother.....

    please give it to the LORD
     
  10. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Well BPW, I think there's just a bit of a grumpy bug going around. Hey, I even got put on an ignore list. Wish I had already been on it, but oh well. Anyhow, it will pass. But if you think about it, kind of funny that tempers would blow up, when talking about powder factories blowing up!!! Anyhow, good job spreading the love around! We grumpy old men need it.
     
  11. hawg

    hawg Member

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    I'm probably on more than one but I don't give a dead rats furry behind.
     
  12. dave951

    dave951 Member

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    And you'd be dead wrong. I pay for, and use, about 40+lb Swiss per year and about 7k percussion caps in muzzleloading competition shooting and practice. Add in my use of Swiss in BPCR and the number goes even higher.

    If you could be bothered to get off your backside and start working with kids (the future black powder generation), had volunteered your own time (to reverse the decline of black powder shooting sports), bought the lead, cast the bullets, paid for the instructor certification, put in the necessary time to get the certification, paid for the gas to get to the range, and poured as much in time and effort into this as I and others have, then some support from a BP manufacturer whose product you're going to use shouldn't be a stretch. Schuetzen supports youth shooting sports, Goex in it's previous ownership DID NOT. NONE of the powder and caps Schuetzen donated has gone through my (or my fellow instructors) competition guns since I (and my fellow instructors) use Swiss and RWS exclusively. So "free" powder is not my agenda unless it's for kids to get introduced to black powder shooting.

    I've said it before, IF Estes changes the previous brand policy in regards to youth shooting sports, I'll change as well. Till then- no I support those who support what I'm doing. It's Schuetzen all through the program with nothing Goex seen or mentioned unless and until Goex changes.
     
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  13. midland man

    midland man Member

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    well i wished someone would send me free powder and caps as i only live on $841 a month Social Security and its hard for me to enjoy shooting my Bp guns and now are payin more for powder and caps than it used to be, and my income hasn't went up which suxs!
     
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  14. hawg

    hawg Member

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    Man I feel for you. I don't know how you do it. I get twice that on disability and it's hard sometimes just to make ends meet. I've got a few pounds of Swiss and Pyrodex but when that's gone there likely won't be any more. For sure wont be any more Swiss.
     
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  15. midland man

    midland man Member

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    it rough and so for me to get the things i got i had to barter /trade for my guns etc! but since my wife died three years ago income was cut a little more than half! so been trying to find someone who i hope we fall in love again and will come be with me and help each other out!
     
  16. Paul R Zartman
    • Contributing Member

    Paul R Zartman Contributing Member

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    Now you guys have me worried, I should retire in a couple years and I have around 8 lbs BP saved up for retirement, do I need more? Should I be worried? Will any more plants Blow Up? I only shoot once a month or so, what should I do :what:... :neener:
     
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  17. hawg

    hawg Member

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    Buy all you can while you can. If for no other reason than it's not going to get any cheaper. If you're prepared for retirement it wont be so bad. I wasn't ready to retire. I was forced into a medical retirement in my 50's.
     
  18. Blackpowderwarrior

    Blackpowderwarrior Member

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    Hawg,

    do you ever come up toward NC?
     
  19. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    Howdy

    Is it safe to comment now?

    I have been shooting Schuetzen for probably close to 20 years now.

    I cut my teeth on Goex when I first started shooting Cap & Ball in 1968. Notice the price on the can on the right, I bought it from a friend a few years ago, and he bought it back goodness knows when.

    pmQaEI2qj.jpg




    This was in the days before Goex was making Olde Eynsford or any of the other fancier powders.

    Way, way back in the 19th Century, some powder was designated rifle powder, as opposed to shot gun powder or other uses. In those days (well over 100 years ago) rifle powder was the good stuff, it did not leave as much fouling behind as other powders.

    I have always thought that it was a bit misleading to characterize run of the mill Goex as rifle powder, because it is fairly dirty stuff.

    I don't recall exactly why I started shooting Schuetzen, probably because I could not find any Goex.

    Anyway, Schuetzen uses a better grade of charcoal than Goex does, which accounts for why Schuetzen burns a bit cleaner.




    po0J3SiMj.jpg




    Schuetzen is made in Germany by Wano Schwartzpulver. (Schwartzpulver translates to Black Powder).

    The price of Schuetzen vs Goex has varied slightly over the years, Schuetzen used to be slightly more expensive than Goex. I have no idea what the breakdown is these days, I have not bought any powder for a few years now.

    Wano also makes Swiss, which is the premier powder, but it costs more than either Goex or Schuetzen.

    I used to go through maybe 20 pounds of powder a year shooting CAS, and I did not need the 'high priced spread' regular old Schuetzen was always good enough for me.

    Elephant? I have not shot any in many years because it is no longer manufactured. I don't actually recall how dirty it was.

    Anyway, Schuetzen is good stuff, and if I was shooting a front stuffer I would not hesitate to feed it Schuetzen.
     
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  20. hawg

    hawg Member

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    No I never go anywhere. The farthest I go now is 30 miles to my Dr. appointments.
     
  21. dickydalton

    dickydalton Member

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    Sucks being there compared to Oklahoma?
     
  22. Blackpowderwarrior

    Blackpowderwarrior Member

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    i know how it is brother im a homebody myself.
     
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  23. hawg

    hawg Member

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    Dunno, never been to Oklahoma.
     
  24. dickydalton

    dickydalton Member

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    Darn I'm sorry, I thought you lived there once. My mistake and I apologize.
     
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  25. dickydalton

    dickydalton Member

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    Do you ever hear from Ralph Crosby, AKA, anymore?
     
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