Single Action Ruger Question

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by jmar, Sep 26, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jmar

    jmar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Messages:
    262
    I'm going to be buying a building a gun soon and i have a few questions.


    Is the Ruger Blackhawk 3 screw .357 Flattop the same size as the non Flattop .357 Blackhawk? "excluding the top strap of course" Or is the flattops frame slightly smaller?

    Second question, is the .357 3 screw blackhawk smaller than the .44 3 screw Blackhawk?



    Vaqueros now, Is the old model Vaquero bigger than the 3 screw .357 Blackhawk?

    What calibers did the old model vaqueros come in and are all the old Vaqueros the same size despite caliber?


    I'm basically trying to find the smallest gun to start my project on. Thanks
     
  2. Wil Terry

    Wil Terry Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,129
    Location:
    Black Hills, South Dakota, USA
    1. YES
    2.YES
    3.YES. YOU SIR, need to read the many fine books on ruger SA sixguns as they are fascinating !!
    4.
    The Old model 3-screw 357 is the smallest of all the Blackhawk series of SA pistols.

    And so it goes...
     
  3. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    5,751
    Location:
    Land of the Pilgrims
    Howdy

    Left to right in this photo of three Three Screw Rugers are a 44 Mag Flat Top, a 357 Mag non-Flat Top for want of a better term, and a 357 Mag Flat Top. It should be obvious from the photo that the cylinder of the 44 Mag has a larger diameter and is longer than the 357 cylinders, and that means the frame has to be larger too. Whether or not the Three Screws were Flat Tops or had the ears protecting the rear sight did not make any difference in frame size.

    Centerfires%2002%20SN%20altered_zpsn9o33db0.jpg


    Probably not so obvious in this photo, but the 'original model' Vaquero at the top of the photo has a larger frame than the New Vaquero below it. The 'original model' Vaqueros all had the same large frame as a modern New Model Blackhawk with the transfer bar, regardless of caliber. The 357 'original model' Vaqueros were very heavy guns because the cylinders were so large and the holes were so small.

    The 'original model' Vaqueros were available chambered for 357 Mag, 44 Mag, and 45 Colt. There were also some chambered for 44-40, but not very many, and there were some available with convertible cylinders for 38-40 and 40 S&W, but there were not very many of those made either.

    Vaquero%20New%20Vaquero%20Comparison_zpssvspxkjj.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  4. jmar

    jmar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Messages:
    262
    Thanks guys i have the info i need. I'll search for a 3 screw 357.
     
  5. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    23,907
    Location:
    Arizona
    Not to rain on your parade, but in 1972 when Ruger introduced their "improved" Blackhawks they also brought forth a conversion kit that included a transfer bar safety for the previous three-screw models. They offered it for free to owners that wanted the advantage of being able to carry with the cylinder fully loaded. Tens-of-thousands took him up on it and sent guns back to the factory.

    I suspect you might be visibly upset if you spent big-bucks for the older model and it arrived with the aforementioned modified lockwork. Since whatever you get will be second-hand, be sure what you are buying. :uhoh:
     
  6. jmar

    jmar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Messages:
    262
    Thanks for your concern but i'm aware about that. I'll be sure to make sure it's non converted. I also read that they can be easily converted back so it may not be a big deal if i get a converted one.
     
  7. BobWright

    BobWright Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    2,004
    Location:
    Memphis, Tennessee
    When you can find them, the parts to un-convert them go around $200 ~ $225.

    Bob Wright
     
  8. 200Apples
    • Contributing Member

    200Apples Mojave Lever Crew

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Indeed. I'm looking for a Super Blackhawk hammer.

    Want one for my Old Model .41...


    :)
     
  9. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    5,751
    Location:
    Land of the Pilgrims
    I have come across a couple of converted Three Screws. I have never come across the parts to unconvert them. Ruger absolutely will not sell you the parts. I pass every time I come across a converted Three Screw.
     
  10. jmar

    jmar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Messages:
    262
    What i meant by easy was no modifications required. I was hoping a company reproduced the original parts for a reasonable price. Any out there?
     
  11. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    23,907
    Location:
    Arizona
    Just for grins I just checked out Numrich Arms (www.gunpartscorp.com) who are a big supplier of surplus parts. When it came to Ruger 3-screw Blackhawks they had a few screws, pins, stocks, and springs - but otherwise ZIP.

    I don't believe anyone is making aftermarket parts, as these revolvers have been history since 1972. Ruger themselves will only sell the conversion parts, and those that carried over from the old to new models such as ejector tubes and rods, adjustable sights, etc.

    Your best bet by far is to go to some of the quick/fast draw web sites and see if anyone has a 3-screw fanner for sale. Not likely but sometimes lightning strikes. Expect that anything you find probably has considerable mileage on it.
     
  12. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    5,751
    Location:
    Land of the Pilgrims
    No.
     
  13. AlfonsDeWolf

    AlfonsDeWolf Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    The Gorge, OR
    I'm guessing the .357 new model Vacquero would be the smallest/lightest as the top strap is or appears thinner than the blackhawk.
     
  14. Radagast

    Radagast Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,148
    Location:
    Australia/OZ
  15. BobWright

    BobWright Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    2,004
    Location:
    Memphis, Tennessee
    You can sort of scrounge around and find a part here and there. At times Dave Cements has had both hammers and triggers that he has made. The triggers are of the wide smooth style for use with Old Army Grip frames. His stock is not always available, though.

    Incidentally, Hamilton Bowen will convet any three screw he works on.

    Bob Wright
     
  16. tallpaul

    tallpaul Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,385
    well some smaller centerfire conversions are made on single six frames which is smaller.
     
  17. farm23

    farm23 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    882
    Location:
    Mountains NC
    I own a 3 screw 22lr/22wmr single six and never sent back for the conversion. I understand a preference for the original but is there a practical downside to the conversion? Also how does one recognize a 3 screw that has been converted.
     
  18. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    23,907
    Location:
    Arizona
    I think the downside is more imagined then real, but on the collector market unconverted guns are worth more, other things being equal.

    If you have the revolver in hand, cock the hammer and you can where metal has been removed to accommodate the transfer bar, and the bar itself.

    Bill Ruger introduced the transfer bar design because of drugstore cowboys who through pure ignorance and stupidity would shoot themselves or others while plying gunfighter, and then sue the Ruger Company for making an unsafe product. Sometimes they actually won and collected big damages. The new design sharply reduced the success of such suites, but sometimes did not sit well with some traditional users.
     
  19. AlfonsDeWolf

    AlfonsDeWolf Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    The Gorge, OR
    Radagast, I assume that Lipsey's Blackhawk is the same size as my 50th Anniversary .357 Blackhawk?
     
  20. Radagast

    Radagast Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,148
    Location:
    Australia/OZ
    I believe so.
     
  21. murf

    murf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,380
    Location:
    arizona
    Be careful, the newer small framed blackhawks have steel gripframes and are heavier than the three-screw guns (aluminium gripframes).

    murf
     
  22. AlfonsDeWolf

    AlfonsDeWolf Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    The Gorge, OR
    From what I understand my 2005 50th ann. has steel ejector housing and grip. Can't say I've heard the newer ones do, but don't know. Extra weight is not always a bad thing but mine is plenty heavy
     
  23. BobWright

    BobWright Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    2,004
    Location:
    Memphis, Tennessee
    Old Fuff said:
    I had a Super Blackhawk returned to the factory and Ruger installed the conversion. Fortunately I kept the original parts.

    As the gun came back after conversion, trigger pull was exceedingly heavy and rough. And in functioning, it was prone to skip a chamber as the action was cocked. I removed that assembly as soon as I could.

    I have bought two Three Screw .357 Magnum Blackhawks, both of which were converted. They did function much better than my Super, but there was a "ratchedy-clackedy" feel as the hammer was cocked, and both had atrocious triggers. Converted both back to original, and made one into a .44 Special.

    Bob Wright
     
  24. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    23,907
    Location:
    Arizona
    I have seen several that meet Bob's description, and two that had received some after-sale TLC and were quite presentable. Unfortunately Ruger revolvers are a bit rough when they come from the factory, but they are also very affordable.

    The hand that rotate the cylinder is activated by the hammer as it is cocked. The movement of the transfer bar is done by the trigger.

    Jmar proposes to make a revolver specifically intended to be a "fanner" The fanning technique requires that the trigger be pulled and held back while the hammer is still not cocked. The hammer is then manipulated with the edge and palm of the other hand. The trigger is not released until the last shot in the sequence has been fired. Thus during the entire procedure the transfer bar is raised to the "fire position" and does not move.

    All of this is not the Old Fuff's cup of tea, but his preferences are not the point of this thread. For the record, his personal Ruger single action revolvers have not been converted, but they are never fanned and are carried with the hammer down on an empty chamber. His super-fast draw is measured in minutes, and so far he has managed to not shoot himself. :D

    In passing it should be noted that the loading method in the latest Vaquero series have had a design change so they operate exactly the same as the older 3-screw Blackhawks and Colt/clone Single Action's. The cylinder no longer freewheels.
     
  25. jmar

    jmar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Messages:
    262
    I bought a New Vaquero only a few years ago and it has the thing where you load by opening the lading gate and there's no half cock. When did this change happen?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice