Single Action vs. Double Action

[mikemyers]

The purpose of this thread is not to ask the difference between Single and Double Action (http://www.diffen.com/difference/Single_Action_vs_Double_Action). It's to ask which to use, given the choice, for target practice.

On the one hand, I've always been told that single action allows more accurate target shooting, which I fully believe. On the other hand, I just watched this very interesting video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z2mfpLs_mQ

In the video, it is suggested that shooting single-action on a double action revolver isn't doing anything to help develop good trigger control.

What I'm asking here, is while I enjoy SA targets more than what I can accomplish with DA, is it better to simply ignore that, and shoot DA all the time?

(My own compromise might be to do both for dry firing, and SA at the range.)

 

[RON in PA]

In the days when people shot one-handed bullseye target with revolvers SA was the usual method. Nowadays most shooting is two-handed and DA is the way to go. Over time you will develop excellent accuracy, concentrate on the front sight and your trigger pull should be one continuous motion with no hesitation.

 

[SleazyRider]

In the days when people shot one-handed bullseye target with revolvers SA was the usual method. Nowadays most shooting is two-handed and DA is the way to go. Over time you will develop excellent accuracy, concentrate on the front sight and your trigger pull should be one continuous motion with no hesitation.

That is an interesting point you make, Ron, because I am from that day, and learned to shoot just as you described: single-action and one-handed. Although most of my target shooting now is done two-handed, on the two occasions when I've actually had to use a pistol defensively, it has been one-handed. (My other hand was restraining a dog.) It must be true what's been said about reverting back to one's training, because I instinctively thumb-cock my double-action revolver.

Myself, I think that double-action shooting teaches one to pull the trigger straight back without side movement, and makes a person a better single-action shooter.

 

[Steve C]

In the days when people shot one-handed bullseye target with revolvers

What do you mean "In the days..."? Bullseye is still a well participated in sport though few use a revolver any more.

Frankly it really doesn't matter which you use for target shooting as the point of target shooting is to have some fun. Mostly it depends upon what you want to accomplish, small groups and long range or big targets with large scoring rings and fast shooting.

The principals of handgun accuracy is really the same whether you are shooting SA or DA in that you have to align the sights on the target and hold them there while you squeeze the trigger for a short pull SA or a longer pull DA until the trigger surprises you when it releases and the gun fires. If you have a single action gun be it a 1911 or a SA revolver that pretty much dictates you are going to shoot SA.

Some people only see a handgun as a means of self defense to be used for shooting other people. Others see their guns primarily as sport equipment that only coincidentally can be used for self defense if needed.

If you are in the first category then practicing DA mostly shooting large human size targets at relatively close range is probably all the practice you need. If you are in the later category then practice shooting for score on targets set at the range they where designed for is the best way to see if you are really improving. If you are a handgun hunter single action shooting with a heavy magnum at long range is more in line with the skill needs for that activity. If you have a mixture of different handguns then mix it up.

 

[F-111 John]

It depends on what your ultimate goal is. If you wish to improve your defensive shooting accuracy, then normally you would practice double action.

If you wish to make very small groups on paper, then normally you would shoot single action.

So when you are at the range, what are you trying to accomplish? Practicing your defensive shooting, or have fun?

 

[StrawHat]

When I shot PPC, it was esay to spot the new guys, they were shooting SA. I know I did. It took a while but when I started to shoot DA (and practice with live fire and dry firing) my scores went up and I advanced through the stages. I still practice DA shooting.

 

[Lucky Derby]

What Steve C said.

 

[MrBorland]

In the video, it is suggested that shooting single-action on a double action revolver isn't doing anything to help develop good trigger control.

Theirs is a big oversimplification. It still takes plenty of trigger control to get a good SA shot off. Ask anyone who shoots bullseye with a 1911 or a precision rifle.

IMO, it's more accurate to say that DA does require good trigger control that can only be attained by DA practice, so those shooting SA most or all of the time aren't developing their DA skills.

What I'm asking here, is while I enjoy SA targets more than what I can accomplish with DA, is it better to simply ignore that, and shoot DA all the time?

One can be plenty accurate in DA. A good smooth action helps, as does shooting 2-handed. I shoot DA nearly exclusively, but if I were shooting formal bullseye competition (i.e. 1-handed) with a revolver, I'd likely shoot the 50 yard slow fire SA, and the rest DA.

Bottom line, IMO, both SA and DA are useful, and the well-rounded wheelgunner will be proficient with both. I personally think it's easier to transition from good DA form to good SA form than the reverse, and the former takes more practice, so a good wheelgunner will likely spend most of their time shooting DA.

 

[ATLDave]

Decide whether you want to get better at DA shooting. If you do, make yourself do it exclusively until you're decent at it. Otherwise, the temptation to revert to SA during your range sessions (and the tidy little groups you'll be able to produce) will keep you from progressing. Just make learning to shoot DA a project.

If you don't care about being able to shoot well DA, then just keep right on shooting SA.

 

[wlewisiii]

One of the things that my DAO modified Model 10 has done is force me to only shoot double action and that's reviled all kinds of bad habits that I'm slowly weeding out and getting better as a result. Single action, for me, hides a multitude of sins.

 

[MrBorland]

Decide whether you want to get better at DA shooting. If you do, make yourself do it exclusively until you're decent at it.

One of the things that my DAO modified Model 10 has done is force me to only shoot double action

Both are good points. Rendering a revolver Double Action Only by removing the hammer spur and SA notch forces one to shoot DA. Combined with a commitment to master the DA trigger, you'll improve your overall revolver shooting tremendously. Below's a good read on the subject.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/the_case_for_dao.html

 

[RealGun]

When I shot PPC, it was esay to spot the new guys, they were shooting SA. I know I did. It took a while but when I started to shoot DA (and practice with live fire and dry firing) my scores went up and I advanced through the stages. I still practice DA shooting.

When I once used my Kahr 4" T40 to shoot a bullseye match, the director immediately suggested I use my 1911 instead. That was indoors at 20 yards max. That is a DAO versus SA issue, with both trigger actions outstanding examples. I purposely used that gun, only competing with my own prior scores, but it was interesting to hear what I thought was a common feeling about the two types of trigger actions.

I shot DAO in my semi-auto carry guns for the first 8 years of carrying. Meanwhile, I owned a full sized steel 1911 that made me look like a better shot.

 

[RealGun]

Aren't those who "stage" their DA trigger pull just doing a faux SA?

 

[Comrade Mike]

Why can't we shoot both?

 

[murf]

realgun,

holding a ten pound da trigger at the let-off point is a bit different than pressing a three pound sa trigger. one should learn, and be proficient with, both methods.

murf

 

[Jim Watson]

Agree with F111, it depends on what the OP means by "target practice."
MY "target practice" is mostly practice for target competition. These days that is IDPA, so I will be shooting double action except when testing ammunition for accuracy and velocity.
I also learned to shoot PPC double action at all ranges and positions.

And the defensive revolver should certainly be shot double action.
I know of some cases like Sleazy's when the habit of single action shooting took over in a stressful situation. Two resulted in holes in rug and furniture when ladies who had been considerately provided by their husbands with double action revolvers suited to their dim little brains and dainty little hands found out for themselves that pulling the hammer back made the trigger way easier to pull. When they armed themselves against perceived threats, they cocked their revolvers much too soon. Attempting to ease the hammer down after the threat had passed by one led to a hole in the floor. A startle reaction put a hole in a water bed for the other, fortunately in the rail above the mattress.

But if I were shooting NRA or IHMSA, it would be single action all the way.

Yes, Realgun, there is, or was, a school of staged double action shooting. I think it was Paul Weston who advocated it in opposition to the Ed McGivern system of a smooth rolling pull and reset.
You could even buy grips with a hump on the filler at the off side rear of the trigger guard to be contacted by the tip of the trigger finger and give you a stop point for the last stage.
Some of those alleged DAO PPC shooters have rubber trigger stops. They can sweep the trigger back to the stop, refine the sight picture, and squeeze off the shot against the slight added resistance of the rubber.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Aren't those who "stage" their DA trigger pull just doing a faux SA?

Yes, they are and they aren't doing themselves any favors...I should know, I did it for quite a while when shooting PPC.

DA trigger control practice...pressing the trigger smoothly to the rear without stopping or slowing down...will improve your SA trigger control; the reverse isn't true.

SA and staging a DA trigger at the letoff point, caters to the mind's desire to press off the shot when the sights look perfect...and usually result in shots going low and left

 

[Skribs]

It depends on what your ultimate goal is. If you wish to improve your defensive shooting accuracy, then normally you would practice double action.

If you wish to make very small groups on paper, then normally you would shoot single action.

So when you are at the range, what are you trying to accomplish? Practicing your defensive shooting, or have fun?

You beat me to it, and probably worded it better. Personally, both are fun, but you will probably be more accurate single action, but it would be more practical to train in double action because that's what you're likely to use in self defense.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Well if it's a single action revolver, that's all you can practice with LOL.

As for SA/DA revolvers... I usually shoot in double-action mode. That's mainly because I use revolvers for defense, not just target guns, and I wan't to practise as I play. Also I have a S&W 642 which is DAO, and I found that by learning it's trigger pull it helped me shoot my other revolver much better in DA. Now I practice that way most often.

 

[MrBorland]

Personally, both are fun, but you will probably be more accurate single action,

One gets good at what they practice. Practice DA shooting enough, and there's no reason your DA accuracy can't generally be the equal of your SA accuracy, all else being equal. Most, however, either don't shoot as much DA as they need to to achieve this kind of DA proficiency or they don't believe (or know) DA can be very accurate.

FWIW, I agree with 9mmE, and I'm of the "no staging" school of thought. It largely amounts to timing the shot, which is a futile errand.

When I've caught myself staging, it was because I wasn't mentally committed to a complete DA pull from the beginning of the pull. You can abort the shot if everything doesn't look right, but commit to a smooth, steady and complete DA pull when you begin the pull, not after you've stopped to stage. If the sights are aligned when you started the pull, and your DA pull is smooth, they should still be aligned when the shot breaks.

 

[9mmepiphany]

If the sights are aligned when you started the pull, and your DA pull is smooth, they should still be aligned when the shot breaks.

This is what we refer to when we say that much (most) of shooting a handgun is a mental game...sometimes it is just an Act of Faith

 

[4v50 Gary]

I love DA revolver sooting. I practiced regularly just to master that longer trigger pull.

Here's an exercise that helps: Put a coin on the barrel (if the barrel has a flat rib on top) of a revolver loaded with snap caps. Aim at a target and squeeze. You should be able to maintain your hold on the target and have the coin fall off.

 

[mavracer]

If you want to shoot DA learn to shoot DA as MrBorland has said and can demonstrate there's no reason you can't be as good DA as you can SA or at least nearly so.

 

[RainDodger]

During my firearms "formative" years, I thought single action was the only way to shoot. Then I was properly trained to shoot double-action as a federal agent (we had to carry revolvers back then )

Now when I shoot any revolver that is double-action capable, that's the only way I shoot. You can be very, very accurate shooting double-action with practice. Time and practice is the way....

 

[BCRider]

I shoot a lot in speed related matches so the lion's share of my DA/SA revolver shooting is in DA mode. I probably cock for SA with those guns less than 1% of the time.

There is no doubt at all that the control needed to hold the sight picture and produce a smooth and accurate result with the DA trigger has made me a better shooter with ANY handgun.

The odd result is that since I shoot in SA mode so little I find I can match or do better even at long range slow bullseye shooting in DA mode.

I'm one of the folks that believes that staging the trigger is a good way to mess up a shooter's accuracy. I've seen this a few times where folks deliberately stage the trigger then snatch the trigger at the last to get the break where they want it. The resulting loss of control often results in a miss where they would have gotten a hit if they simply held the sight picture and pulled smoothly through with a nice build and follow through.

The fallout of shooting primarily in DA with my DA/SA revolvers is that when shooting the first shot in DA mode with my CZ semis I typically get my first shot into the center or onto the steel target.

So yeah, I'm a huge fan of the speed and results from shooting CORRECTLY in DA mode.