Single stack DA compacts w/ hammers: what’s left?

[JR24]

I agree that rigid kydex belt holster is the "safest" way to carry a striker. The transitional space is still an issue, but minimized. Unfortunately, what we see far too often is the striker platform carried in a soft/pliable pocket or IWB holster from the likes of Uncle Mikes or Blackhawk.

This I will not disagree with, and for folks like LEO that might be needing to quickly reholster in the heat of the moment while doing other things I can see there possibly being an argument made for the heavier trigger safety margin (so to speak) as well.

 

[aaronu]

Makarov.

In my neck of the woods (PNW) there is even ammo available for it.

 

[milemaker13]

Double Action Only

I guess I was unaware of DAO hammer fired pistol.

 

[DT Guy]

I agree that rigid kydex belt holster is the "safest" way to carry a striker. The transitional space is still an issue, but minimized. Unfortunately, what we see far too often is the striker platform carried in a soft/pliable pocket or IWB holster from the likes of Uncle Mikes or Blackhawk.

If you get to where you're relying on the weight of the trigger to prevent an ND, you're already making a number of mistakes.

It's not like putting a seatbelt on when driving a car, it's like wearing a parachute because you don't check your plane's oil.

Larry

 

[.455_Hunter]

If you get to where you're relying on the weight of the trigger to prevent an ND, you're already making a number of mistakes.

Sometime all you can do is sigh...

 

[DT Guy]

Sometime all you can do is sigh...

Or provide a substantive response.

If a 10# trigger is 'safer', would a 20# be 'even safer'? If you fail in training, fail in selecting a holster and fail in gunhandling, does depending on 3-5 additional pounds of trigger pull to keep you (and everyone around you) safe seem smart? Or would it be smarter to ensure the training, holster and gunhandling prevent contacting the trigger when you don't want to fire? Admittedly, a heavy trigger is certainly easier than extensive training...but look at the NYPD to see the tragic consequences of heavier-than-necessary trigger pulls when you actually need to hit a target.

I would submit the ultimate ND is shooting an innocent because your trigger is too heavy, followed closely by shooting yourself because you were counting on a heavy trigger to keep you safe.

Larry

 

[.455_Hunter]

Or provide a substantive response.

Sigh. OK. I will play...

If a 10# trigger is 'safer', would a 20# be 'even safer'?

No. Outlandish extremes don't help the discussion. I am referring to the standard the DA style trigger that has existed for 100 years, whether on a typical DA revolver or auto-loader, not a staple gun.

If you fail in training, fail in selecting a holster and fail in gunhandling, does depending on 3-5 additional pounds of trigger pull to keep you (and everyone around you) safe seem smart? Or would it be smarter to ensure the training, holster and gunhandling prevent contacting the trigger when you don't want to fire?

ADs and NDs happen, even to highly trained experts with top notch equipment and gun handling skills. A safer trigger reduces the probability of this occurrence.

Admittedly, a heavy trigger is certainly easier than extensive training...but look at the NYPD to see the tragic consequences of heavier-than-necessary trigger pulls when you actually need to hit a target. I would submit the ultimate ND is shooting an innocent because your trigger is too heavy, followed closely by shooting yourself because you were counting on a heavy trigger to keep you safe.

Once again, the discussion concerns DA triggers that were once standard on defensive sidearms, NOT some sort of absurd "heavier-than-necessary" trigger pull. Is the current defensive typical shooter unable to handle the same weapon his father or grandfather could use effectively and safely?

 

[Elkins45]

Or provide a substantive response.

If a 10# trigger is 'safer', would a 20# be 'even safer'? If you fail in training, fail in selecting a holster and fail in gunhandling, does depending on 3-5 additional pounds of trigger pull to keep you (and everyone around you) safe seem smart? Or would it be smarter to ensure the training, holster and gunhandling prevent contacting the trigger when you don't want to fire? Admittedly, a heavy trigger is certainly easier than extensive training...but look at the NYPD to see the tragic consequences of heavier-than-necessary trigger pulls when you actually need to hit a target.

I would submit the ultimate ND is shooting an innocent because your trigger is too heavy, followed closely by shooting yourself because you were counting on a heavy trigger to keep you safe.

Larry

See below.

 

[Elkins45]

I’m continually amazed how often this meme is appropriate here.

 

[DT Guy]

I’m continually amazed how often this meme is appropriate here.

You don't seem to know the difference between a disagreement and a preference.

100 years ago, folks struggled with DA triggers; when police switched to striker-fired, consistent trigger pull firearms, their ability to hit their target went up markedly; they're a better system for the average shooter.

And all the rhetoric aside-you're saying ~5# of trigger pull is making you safer. I'm saying that if you're counting on 5# of trigger pull to prevent an ND, you're doing it wrong.

Sigh if you like, but you haven't refuted the premise; trigger discipline needs to be absolute. If you're unsafe with a 5# trigger, you're unsafe with a 10# trigger. Simple as that.

Larry

 

[Elkins45]

You don't seem to know the difference between a disagreement and a preference.

100 years ago, folks struggled with DA triggers; when police switched to striker-fired, consistent trigger pull firearms, their ability to hit their target went up markedly; they're a better system for the average shooter.

And all the rhetoric aside-you're saying ~5# of trigger pull is making you safer. I'm saying that if you're counting on 5# of trigger pull to prevent an ND, you're doing it wrong.

Sigh if you like, but you haven't refuted the premise; trigger discipline needs to be absolute. If you're unsafe with a 5# trigger, you're unsafe with a 10# trigger. Simple as that.

Larry

I challenge you to go back thru this thread and find where I said anything about being unsafe with a light trigger.

I learned to shoot with DA revolvers. It’s not my problem if you can’t shoot a DA trigger well.

 

[Mike J]

Everything I carry is striker fired. I don't get the point in denigrating another persons choice of weapon system though. When I first started carrying I carried a DA/SA pistol. I sometimes wished it were Double Action Only as the take up in the SA trigger always kind of bothered me. Then I had an inexpensive DAO pistol with a shrouded hammer & a lousy trigger (not lousy because of DAO but lousy because it was gritty & catchy). Sometimes I am tempted to pick up another DA/SA to mess around with. I think I could live with one that was Decock only without a slide mounted safety but my needs are met with what I have now. What is somewhat said is there is very little new production of anything that is DA/SA or DAO & hammer fired. I have been following this thread just to see if there is anything out there I don't know of.

 

[.455_Hunter]

I have been following this thread just to see if there is anything out there I don't know of.

The only one I have that is a bit "special" is a NYPD overrun 3914DAO with a true double strike capable DAO mechanism, not the half-cocked DAO of the 3953/54.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I was going to say Ruger LC9 but they seem to only make the s (striker) version now. Bummer. May still be NIB ones out there if you look some.

Hammer guns are tougher and tougher to find. When I looked around for a metal platform with a hammer I was pretty sad with the outcome. Few left and some of the major makers have left that market to go polymer only (or almost entirely).

 

[DT Guy]

I challenge you to go back thru this thread and find where I said anything about being unsafe with a light trigger.

I learned to shoot with DA revolvers. It’s not my problem if you can’t shoot a DA trigger well.

Reply was to both you and.455. Read his replies and it will be obvious which comments pertain to who.

Larrt

 

[JDR]

If you see a Sig P6, P225(A1), or P239 for sale and the price is too high, suck it up & spend the extra money anyway. If you don’t like one of these right away, you’ll grow to love it.

 

[BreechFace]

Just thought of another, don’t think it has been mentioned yet, the S&W 39, well deserved reputation as well.

 

[BreechFace]

Or the HK p2000sk with the LEM, it’s not a true single stack more like a 1.5 if I’m remembering correctly.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Reply was to both you and.455. Read his replies and it will be obvious which comments pertain to who.

None of my discussion is based on when the pistol is actually the hand for firing. My preference for actually shooting is proper SA, far lighter than most strikers, but sometimes that can be compromised out of need.

The safety of the DA trigger for concealed carry is most critical with inadvertent actuation by non-finger methods and has nothing to do with maximizing range qualification scores.

I am not going to keep trying to explain further- if you don't get it, you don't get it.

 

[DT Guy]

None of my discussion is based on when the pistol is actually the hand for firing. My preference for actually shooting is proper SA, far lighter than most strikers, but sometimes that can be compromised out of need.

The safety of the DA trigger for concealed carry is most critical with inadvertent actuation by non-finger methods and has nothing to do with maximizing range qualification scores.

I am not going to keep trying to explain further- if you don't get it, you don't get it.

Agreed. I think folks reading this in the future can judge each argument on its merits.

Larry

 

[sgt127]

Ya know. I always liked a Double Action trigger or an off switch on a carry gun, particularly when I carry appendix.

I was wrong, apparently.

As long as I keep my “booger hook off the bang switch”.

Carry with the trigger covered and keep draw strings and stuff out of the way....

It’s perfectly reasonable to carry a cocked pistol. Without an off switch.

 

[Ignition Override]

Elkins45: Are you excluding surplus guns from consideration?

And do you want DAO or DA/SA? Not sure that I saw what your parameters must be.
For example, are commercial Russian Makarovs in .380 or 9x18 excluded?

I'm also not sure what your required chamberings must be, or the allowed spectrum of "calibers".

Only a year ago did I become aware of the Existence (-at all-) of the older, all-metal S&W semi-autos. Some people might have forgotten that there are single-stack 9mms in their large 3rd. Gen. group, and almost all are DA/SA.
Single-stack S&W 9mm (3rd Gen): 3913, 3914, 3953, 3954, 908. Google "3rd. Gen S&W", by Lucky Gunner.

Maybe you're not interested in these, but I didn't see your views about them while skimming.

 

[sgt127]

You are much like me.

Seriously, just get a P239. Specifically with the DAK trigger.

It’s an awesome gun. I own two of them. One in 357 SIG/.40 and another in 9mm.

Its a smooth flat revolver with a great trigger.

And...a dandy, Safe, Reliable carry gun.

One of Sigs great carry guns.

 

[guyfromohio]

You are much like me.

Seriously, just get a P239. Specifically with the DAK trigger.

It’s an awesome gun. I own two of them. One in 357 SIG/.40 and another in 9mm.

Its a smooth flat revolver with a great trigger.

And...a dandy, Safe, Reliable carry gun.

One of Sigs great carry guns.

I have more than a few guns. Some would be sold or traded depending on need/desire, but my 239 has survived every safe purge since I bought it with a hard-earned bonus check about 12 years ago. I typically don’t carry it, but I would not hesitate to.

 

[Elkins45]

Elkins45: Are you excluding surplus guns from consideration?

And do you want DAO or DA/SA? Not sure that I saw what your parameters must be.
For example, are commercial Russian Makarovs in .380 or 9x18 excluded?

I'm also not sure what your required chamberings must be, or the allowed spectrum of "calibers".

Only a year ago did I become aware of the Existence (-at all-) of the older, all-metal S&W semi-autos. Some people might have forgotten that there are single-stack 9mms in their large 3rd. Gen. group, and almost all are DA/SA.
Single-stack S&W 9mm (3rd Gen): 3913, 3914, 3953, 3954, 908. Google "3rd. Gen S&W", by Lucky Gunner.

Maybe you're not interested in these, but I didn't see your views about them while skimming.

I would love to get my hands on one of the 3rd Gen Smiths but they don’t show up around here very often, and the lack of parts support by S&W makes me hesitant to sink much money into one.

You are much like me.

Seriously, just get a P239. Specifically with the DAK trigger.

It’s an awesome gun. I own two of them. One in 357 SIG/.40 and another in 9mm.

Its a smooth flat revolver with a great trigger.

And...a dandy, Safe, Reliable carry gun.

One of Sigs great carry guns.

I actually have a P239 DAK in 40 that I ended up with by “accident.” I made a lowball placeholder bid on one on Gunbroker and ended up winning it. Apparently the combo of the DAO trigger and a “dead” caliber made it somewhat of an unwanted specimen. I’m pretty sure I paid less than $300 for it including shipping and transfer fees.