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Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets, Jan 27, 2010.

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  1. Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets

    Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets member

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    There are some changes on the www.pennbullets.com website with the speciality bullets being put back into production. Check out the new PennBulletin on the site for more details. There will be other site updates coming in the next few weeks as well.
     
  2. Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets

    Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets member

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    There have now been some price changes as well on some of the .45 bullets with lower pricing to align their cost with other bullets in the line. Ther will be addtional updates to come on pricing and new bullets being added to the line so keep checking back.;)
     
  3. Travis Two

    Travis Two member

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    Great news , some of my favorite bullets are in that group.
     
  4. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    Just out of curiosity, I did some research on your company, as I am planning on a large bullet order soon. I found this:
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=355312&page=2
    Some of the posts are as recent as december. Have your business practices changed, staffing changed, or something? I am not attacking you, but I would like to know why someone should trust you over a reputable company with stellar feedback?
     
  5. bds
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    bds Member

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    ljnowell, I read the posts on the link. :eek::eek::eek:

    Forums such as THR exist to reflect the actual business practices and actual experience with vendors/products so that other "consumer shooter/reloaders" can benefit in making their buying decisions.

    If a company is experiencing extreme demand/supply problems and cannot fill customer orders within a reasonable timeframe, I fully expect a reasonable vendor to post this on their order page (how many weeks of wait, etc.) or gray-out the items until they are able to fill the orders in a timely manner.

    We all have life's issues, but professional obligation is business of fulfilling your customers' needs.

    I will withhold my order from Penn Bullets until I see significant positive THR comments - BUYER BEWARE!

     
  6. Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets

    Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets member

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    I addressed some of these issues before but apparently nobody takes the time to read our site carefully with regard to orders and our procedures which are spelled out very clearly. This would include updates thru the PENNBULLETIN section of the site. Plus the fact that certain months are busier than others and that the panic that has been going on for the last 18 months is not over yet but seems to be improving. (of course every time I think I get a handle on this it comes back to bite me again)
    THR and other forums only represent a small fraction of the number of people that reload and who are our customers, and as such, a few negative comments skew the image of the company.
    To put this in perspective I'm sure most people have seen the cute GEICO commercials in which the CEO states that they have 18 million customers with an approval rating of 97%. Well do the math and 3 % represents 30,000 people who aren't happy with GEICO yet they proudly advertise that fact. If you read 30,000 bad reviews you wouldn't buy their insurance either.

    I have been in this buisness for nearly 30 years with years of national exposure and as such our customer base is massive compared to others on this forum. I can tell you that from the thousands upon thousands of customers that we have that yes there are some that haven't been happy with our service and other problems associated with any small manufacturing company but that the total number of dissatisfied customers is less than 1% of our total volume and I'm very proud of that fact including the fact that we are now suppling bullets for international competitive use for the U.S. ARMY markmenship unit for their custom 9mm 1911 pistols.
    No company over any period of time is ever going to be 100% all the time.
    Add in the fact that hundreds of cast bullet manufacturers have closed their doors across the U.S. over the last few years and you might start to appreciate the problems that we face.

    Lets take another example. Many have shopped for cast bullets with an eye torwards prices. Lets take two examples that are mentioned here on these forums. Oregon Trail aka Laser Cast and Missouri Bullets. Both have good reps yet Laser Cast are much more expensive than Missouri. Laser Cast has always been more expensive than my prices so one would think that after all this time they should be out of buisness with their prices. But they are not. They endure as does Meister bullets whose prices are higher than ours and the list could go on but the point is we all have a customer base that keeps us going.
    Missouri is growing and has a good rep but I have read some negative comments about them as well on different forums. I have seen Brad try to address those issues as I continue to do here. He has outstanding speed of delivery service of which I wish I could duplicate but my processes here are different and as such take more time to produce the results that our customers demand.
    If Missouri had my customer client base and the number of bullets that we offer then he would be writing this answer instead of me.
    Eventually every operation has problems and we all try our best to resolve them and sometimes I don't get it right on the first attempt at getting a problem resolved but eventually I will get it right. That credit for 155.00 was processed. The problem as I noted on the PENNBULLETIN page was that I lost my hard drive on the computer and had to get a laptop to continue working which caused a delay.
    Recently I have added more, much needed help and as such backorders are improving and current orders are going out faster and I have removed the suspension on the speciality bullets and are getting many of those bullets done as well.
    Is there still a backlog and are you going to wait for an order still? The answer is still yes untill things return to pre-panic levels. BUT things are improving everyday. So while I cannot offer you perfection in all things I can offer it in some things and the number of satisfied users far outweigh those that aren't.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  7. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    Sorry, I didnt think it was my responsibility to read your site to see if you have good customer service. I dont have a problem with your prices, they are higher than Missouri Bullet, but most others are too. I was just wondering about the outstanding complaints that are posted here, and what was done to fix those problems.

    I wont go to a companies website to read about how the customer service has improved when I can read about the issues here, from fellow reloaders who are using those services.

    BTW, I have yet to see anyone on any forum complain about waiting 9 months without communication, not getting product, or being charged and not recieving anything from Missouri Bullet on any forum. I have seen people complain about problems with orders, and Brad fix them.

    What seems odd to me is that you had no problem ignoring those problems the entire time that thread has been here, but now you are ready to come and post advertisements and pretend like the other stuff never happened. I dont think I can trust a company that behaves that way.
     
  8. MissouriBullet

    MissouriBullet Member

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    That's because I'm waiting to do that to Walkalong when he finally places an order with us and I didn't want to spoil it by doing it early :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  9. bds
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    bds Member

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    Just my 2 cents ... If the THR members' business represent such a small percentage of your business, why not focus on your higher priority larger customers and let the smaller operators meet our "small fish" needs.

    If many larger casters closed, perhaps, the added demand for hard cast bullets will keep the remaining small casters alive and keep them from going bankrupt.

    I came to THR because many quality posters here have helped me from making mistakes they made while reloading and I intent to pass along information that might help others.

    Solution to your THR member issues is quite simple. Focus on meeting your high priority larger customers needs first now. When you are able to provide smaller bullet orders (1000-5000) in a timely manner, set a reasonable delivery time frame on your website and offer a money-back guarantee/payment after delivery option to your customers. If you meet your published delivery performance promise, I am sure those experiences will be posted here on THR.

    I believe in fairness and consumer protection.

    In fact, I will gladly order a sample order after such measures are put in place (I was planning to order 1000 of mixed 9/40/45 bullets this weekend).
     
  10. bds
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    bds Member

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    MissouriBullet:
    Is that another THR member perks you offer?
     
  11. Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets

    Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets member

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    To LJnowell, nobody asked you to read about customer service. I had an explanation on the sight that explained when and how orders would be handled and that comes with every automatic response when orders are placed. Every company I have ever dealt with tells its customers in some form or fashion how orders are handled and processed and we are no different in that regard. The .41 mag bullets are a low demand item and as explained on the site that some low demand bullets are run only once a year. So obviously 9 months was within the time frame that we had listed. The information is there to inform you. If you want to be blind and not read then don't complain when you don't get what you expect when its spelled out for you.
    I get plenty of inquiries by phone and e- mail about the status of orders and I try to give realistic times on the deliveries. Sometimes that results in a cancellation but surprisingly more times than not it usually ends up that the customer ends up increasing the order to make sure he has enough untill the next run for that bullet. It's a strange buisness that I'm still surprised by some responses I get.

    To BDS. The fact is I cater to all customers large and small. Small customers are what built this buisness in the first place and I'm not about to turn my back on them now. Some of these small customers have been with me from almost the begining. The nature of this buisness doesn't lend itself to always picking and choosing the type of customer one wishes to cater to. So don't wait to give us a try. I'm pretty sure you'll be pleased.
    The fact of the matter is that despite what is happening now ours unfortunatly is an aging and shrinking industry that occasionally gets a shot in the arm from the rampant political scene but facts are facts and the youth of this country are NOT enetring and engaging in the shooting sports especially with the schools and their zero tolerance policies.
    Take an informal survey yourself and talk to kids when you come across them and you will find a shocking concensus that most think guns are bad and if its not wrapped in the latest murder and mayhem video game then kids aren't interested. One only has to wonder why childhood obesity is at an all time high. when the CEO of WalMart says that hunting and fishing sales are down between 20-30% yet the video game market is one that they haven't seen peak yet then one starts to get some perspective. I did 30 gun shows a year in 4 states for 26 years and can tell you that you don't see a lot of young shooters in the crowds. Look at the average age of those in a gun show and you will see what I mean.
    To Brad, too late, I'm pretty sure I already sold bullets to Walkalong but he may want to give yours a try.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  12. bds
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    bds Member

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    Even though you have it in writing somewhere else on your website, I think casting once a year and the extended wait time information should be right next to the order button since I believe most reloaders anticipate reasonable casting/processing time to be a few weeks, not several months.

    As to your quoted statement above, right now there are over 100+ readers viewing this category (1000+ viewing THR overall), would you want your current/potential customers reading that?

    IMHO.
     
  13. bds
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    bds Member

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    That statement does not address the customer service issue I posted:

     
  14. bds
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    bds Member

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    Duplicate
     
  15. Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets

    Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets member

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    I have worked hard to provide by what many, many customers have said is one of the best and most informative web sites of it kind. I have done my part to put the information there and I can tell you once again that most of the customers that order from us read that information. The problem is that while a particular bullet may be a low demand item all it takes is one order or a group of orders to come in for that bullet and now it gets put into production instead of waiting. That just happened with the 38/55 bullet when One order came in for 5000 of them and it was put on the casting schedule and that order was filled along with any orders that were pending and any new orders that came in while they were in production or after from the extras that were run for inventory. so that 1 year time figure is not something set in stone but rather subject to outside conditions.
    If you feel I did not address the customer service issue with my answer then sorry as I have no other way to answer you other than I cater to all small and large and will continue to do so. Your solution is not practical in this buisness. As to the money back gurantee after delivery that is on the site as well and has been one of our founding policies for 30 years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  16. bds
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    bds Member

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    From your website: http://www.pennbullets.com/order-processing.htm

     
  17. bds
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    bds Member

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    So why was ljnowell's credit card charged? And if you run them, why weren't the bullets shipped?

    I believe he did ask you to reverse the credit card charges - wasn't he invoking the money back guarantee? Of course you can say he has to wait after delivery, but he never got the bullets. So the money back guarantee does not apply to your delay in delivery?

    I just read through your website and really could not locate the money back guarantee statement. Shouldn't it be at the bottom of the Normal Order Processing page?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  18. Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets

    Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets member

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    That pretty much covers it. if you have any other questions then feel free to give me a call. 412-767-4670
     
  19. Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets

    Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets member

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    His order was charged up front as stated in the procedure and at that point it was valid order to be worked on and was put in process. His order would have been done in the time frame as outlined in the policy and then shipped but he opted to cancel and that was fine and the credit was issued. The money back gurantee refers to the product after recieved, not to a cancelled order that is issued a credit. I think at this point if there are any more questions I would be happy to give you a call or you can call me and discuss this further theres too much cross listing or responses that is getting confusing. Theres no need to carry this on any longer here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  20. bds
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    bds Member

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    I agree. You got bullets to cast.

     
  21. MissouriBullet

    MissouriBullet Member

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    Darn it! I didn't get to make Walkalong wait 9 months!

    Drat! I guess that I'll have to keep on shipping bullets from stock, then.
     
  22. Roccobro

    Roccobro Member

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    LOL

    Justin
     
  23. Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets

    Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets member

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    Brad I wish you all the luck to keep growing. I know that may sound strange coming from a fellow caster but I want to retire in about 5 years and I figure you might just be ready to buy me out then so I can retire and go shooting.
     
  24. MissouriBullet

    MissouriBullet Member

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    Heck Bob, I'm already retired! I quit my day job last April, one that paid me $92k/year base salary plus bonuses so that I could do this full time and just relax and hang out.

    I'm loving this retirement! In 5 years I am going to buy Canada so that we don't have to pay the $2250.00 annual ITAR fee to export to it.
     
  25. Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets

    Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets member

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    You picked a strange buisness to retire with. Oh well maybe I'll just retire with it too. Right now TGIF as its snowing to beat all out here right now . Might get 12 inches so that means it'll be time to call the snowplow.
     
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