sizing die problem.

[Captain Quack]

Since I had to wait for a new Lee Auto Disk powder measure (don't ask just... don't) I thought it would be a good time to tear everything down and clean and empty my Lee Loadmaster press. Quite successfully cleaned and lubed. After 97 years of tweaks and tunes and them words we don't say I'm back to where I'm mounting dies on the heads. I just can NOT get the Lee full length sizing/decap die to be consistent against a 9mm case checker. 2 or 3 will be flush. 2 or 3 will be a bit high. 1 or 2 will be a lot high. All pulled one after the other with a slow pull and extra care not to short stroke. I even checked the case gauge against a box of commercial ammo and it was good. The wife has a new 9mm she wants to try out so I need to get some plinking ammo cranked out. Or am I just worrying about nothing?

 

[Cheesemaker]

do you set up your press to "cam over" this usually sorts this for me...how do those plunk in your wife's 9mm? They should sit in the block fine

 

[Captain Quack]

I'm not sure what you mean by "cam over". I've just been using the case gauge. Haven't dropped any down any barrels of any of the nines yet.

 

[nettlle]

Cam over means you can feel the ram of the press bump the bottom of the sizing die. It feels like a little lump on the finish of the upstroke. Not your problem. You have something moving on your press set up.

 

[Walkalong]

Since most 9MM chambers are "generous" (some match barrels may differ), you'll likely be OK. I shot some "fat"
9MM reloads for years in numerous guns with no issues until I bought an EMP with an undersized chamber. I sent
it back to Springfield and they reamed it out, but only to SAMMI minimum. Any case over .3915 near the base
would jam up. So I bought a Wilson case gauge and to my dismay many of my reloads would not fit. I started
checking all of my sized cases with the gauge and scrapped anything that would not drop back out from its own
weight. Problem solved. Oh, about 10 to 15% of range brass would fail the gauge after sizing..

 

[FROGO207]

I would take the barrel out of the gun and see if the brass plunked all the way in and slid out on its own. If they do, load some and see of they still plunk as loaded ammo. If so test shoot em.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Or am I just worrying about nothing?

It's not nothing, the inconsistency would have me concerned.

Do your resized cases fit in the case gauge?
If they do, it isn't a sizing issue

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Do you have your die screwed down low enough to touch your shell plate when your resizing a case? If you need to screw it down further make sure you raise the primer punch pin so it doesn't bottom out before the die does.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Sounds like a die adjustment issue to me but maybe not. Are these range pickups? Could this be a bulge?

For all my 9mm I use a simple Lee SS & their decap/sizing die and drop every sized case in a Wilson die as shown in @Walkalong post. I don’t Cam Over.

When a sized case doesn’t drop in & out completely of its own weight I set it aside for the 9mm Makarov die bulge busting treatment.

Works every time without fail. Seems like S&B cases are common offenders but that’s just a SWAG.

I shoot a Wilson 1911 for 9mm. Don’t know if this is a factor.

Others may balk and say I’m papering over a problem vs fixing it. Well, I load to shoot and these rounds shoot just fine.

 

[Walkalong]

I'm not sure what you mean by "cam over". I've just been using the case gauge. Haven't dropped any down any barrels of any of the nines yet.

Do you have your die screwed down low enough to touch your shell plate when your resizing a case? If you need to screw it down further make sure you raise the primer punch pin so it doesn't bottom out before the die does.

This, make sure there is no daylight between the die and the shell plate or holder when actually sizing a case. Being a tapered case this is much more important with 9MM.

As I posted earlier, assuming you're sizing as much as your die allows, I would scrap any that the sizer could not make fit the gauge.

But again, if they plunk in the gun after loading, they'll shoot, but I agree with @9mmepiphany, the inconsistency is not minimal, and when we can fix that, why wouldn't we.

 

[NMexJim]

CD2227_44SplCarbide3-Die_Pistol20.indd (leeprecision.com)

These from Lee - might help.

 

[Captain Quack]

It's a lee loadmaste. It's the carbide sizing/decapping die (See attached picture. I REALLY wish lee would mark their darn dies! I got three sets and they are all mixed together. Long story). I had a lot of fun resetting the decaping pin with only two of the three hands I needed. I have one head for the press that has a sizing/decap for .38/.357 and A die for 9mm and a collet bullet puller for both. I'll deprime/size what she shot of her .38/.357. Swap the shell plate. Rotate the head and then size and deprime all my 9mm. I prefer to deprime/size and then hand prime my brass for some reason. Don't ask me why because I don't know. As for the brass it's a mix of fired before and new. I'm pretty picky about picking up my own brass at the range. If it was all the cases coming out too large, I wouldn't worry. Just keep setting it until it works, but they are inconsistent. 2 will check fine, for example. Then the next one won't and will be quite high. Then three will be about halfway between them. All random This is coming out of the die one after the other in sequence. Currently, almost all my pistol brass for .38/.357 and 9mm are deprimed and sized. .38/.357 fit her revolver chamber just fine. Good fit. I've read all the instructions from every source I could find. Including Lee's manuals. Watched about 9735 videos, including Lee's. I tried it all from turn down until it just touches the plate and then tightens the ring to give it one quarter turn after it touches the plate to give it a half turn after it touches the plate and tighten down. Tossing out brass that doesn't fit fresh off the press wouldn't be economical because that would be maybe 1/3 to a half. I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps I just got a bad carbide sizing die and should buy a new one.

The universe hates me. I just grabbed a couple of handfuls of the brass I sized and deprimed yesterday and hand primed last night. 24 random cases out of the 9mm primed case bin of maybe 500 cases. Every single one of the 24 cases fit the gauge perfectly. In easy. Dumped and out easy. I went and cranked out 24 more fresh off the press. Same as before. Some flush. Some not flush.

Maybe I should just give up or mortgage the house and buy a Dillon. I used to enjoy tinkering with the Lee Loadmaster. I knew that was a condition of using one before I bought it. I liked the tinkering and twerking and tuning. Not so much anymore.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I think from my experience with RCBS dies the instructions to adjust are different for carbide dies. They want those touching the shell holder. With std dies I think they want you to back the die out 1/2 turn. That's caused me some problems as I have both types of dies. I just loaded 200 rds that won't gauge at the base. I'm probably OK but it hacks me off that I didn't notice that little difference. I can shoot those in a revolver if nothing else.

I think your problem is maybe your die isn't adjusted properly or not locked down.

Good luck getting this mystery solved.

 

[rfwobbly]

The problem is the multi-chamber case gauge. Modern machining and machining methods are nothing short of a miracle. However, there is no way that all 7 holes end up being the exact same size. If it's not the machining, then it's the heat of expansion due to holding a metal block at one end.... there is always going to be a problem.

On the surface, it sounds like a great idea, but it just ain't gonna happen.

 

[mdi]

Many years ago I was complaining about my handloads would not seat completely in a Wilson cartridge gauge. Tried several fixes even bought a new die set (RCBS). On a forum, CMP reloading forum, an old timer asked me "Do they shoot in your gun?". I answered "Yes, quite well". He replied "put the gauge away and carry on". Haven't used a cartridge/case gauge since...

 

[Captain Quack]

I did drop 6 random commercial cases in the checker just to check it. All seated flush. I actually did consider temperature as a factor. My reloading room does tend to run a big cool. Brought the brass and case checker into the living room and gave it an hour to warm to room temp. Same issue. I will do a more directed search about carbide dies and seating. I hadn't considered that. As for plunking the case into the barrel of the pistols. Will them being cases only and not fully loaded make any difference?

 

[kmw1954]

For 223 I have two case gages, one a Lyman and the other a Hornady. Neither are the same size or shape. The Lyman is tighter near the head and if there is any sort of burr of defect around the head it will not drop into Lyman but falls freely in and out of the Hornady. For my auto pistols I just use the barrel as the gage.

 

[Captain Quack]

Methinks I am seeing where I may have wasted some money on the gauge then. This is the 21st century. We're supposed to have robots and lasers and all that sort of thing to make sure our measuring instruments are as accurate as possible. I mean, we can make micrometers to what? Down into the micron range? How hard can it be to make an accurate hole in a block of (supposedly) stable metal? And I'm STILL waiting for my Jet Pack and Flying Cars! When I was a kid far too many years ago, they promised us those! I want a congressional investigation into why not!

 

[Captain Quack]

Plunk tested both barrels with the primed and freshly deprimed and sized cases. Just cases. No powder or bullet. Primed were fine. Some of the ones right off the press were just as high in the barrel as they were in the case check.

 

[ballman6711]

Something has to be moving. Brass can certainly "spring back", but not enough to cause the issues you are having.

I would first check to make sure my die was tightened down and locked so it isn't moving.

Second, I would check to make sure I had all the bolts, nuts, and everything else on my press tightened down and locked.

You did say that you disassembled your press to clean it. Are you sure you reassembled and properly tightened everything back down?

Were you having these problems before cleaning your press? If not, your answer most likely is the press.

chris

 

[Captain Quack]

I spent 2 days taking apart and putting the press back together and getting it running smoothly. Lots of time online watching and reading. I did screw a few things up when I put it back together, but I did learn a few things while doing it. The cases for .38/.357 drop perfectly in her .357 so I figure the press is working fine. No case hangup on the die. Same for the 9mm. Only issue is the sizing. I decided to order a new carbide 9 mm die to eliminate that as an issue. Years ago I bought a .30 carbine die and had nothing but problems. Loaned it to another friend loading .30 carbine and he had the same problems. I bought a new one and things worked fine. The only problem besides this is the case feeder dropping in the odd upside-down case, and that's to be expected. I'm using commercial loads for my defensive carry, so I don't have to worry about it jamming if that ever happens (knock on wood). But it's a pain in the tuchas to have a nice string going and then jam. The only thing left is different seating for carbide dies.

Captain Quack.

 

[Lafitte]

Never have tried to gage empty cases, just finished ammo.
Lafitte

 

[LAR V]

Maybe take a look at your other dies in the head. If any of them are hitting the shell plate it will prevent the cases from running all the way into the sizing die. Also make sure the powder charging die is not set too far down.

 

[Ru4real]

For any and all presses, there is no guarantee the axial center line is in-line, parallel and concentric for a given die, shell plate, shell holder and ram. There is also no guarantee the case rim and headstamp is perpendicular to the case walls.

This happens a lot. Have you noticed a loaded round with a visible bulge on one side of the case, but not the other? This is visual proof of inconsequential misalignment.

If it plunks, send it.

 

[mdi]

"I did drop 6 random commercial cases in the checker just to check it. All seated flush."

Measure the commercial brass; length, OD in several places, case head, rim diameter, rim thickness. Measure your "bad" cases in the same places. Any difference? Are your cases larger in diameter? Any bulges on your brass? Any burrs on your brass? Rims straight and ding free?