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slug or 00 buckshot, which more fatal

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by ksg00, Oct 24, 2019.

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Slug or 00 buckshot, which more fatal?

  1. Slug

    23 vote(s)
    74.2%
  2. 00 buckshot

    8 vote(s)
    25.8%
  1. ksg00

    ksg00 Member

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    I don't know anything about amo, please forgive me for my question, I would love to hear everyone insight and advice on this. Thank you in advance.

    So let say you using a Kel-Tec KSG or shotgun in general. If at point-blank, which are more fatal, slug or 00 buckshot?

    From what I know at point-blank, buckshot don't even expand much, so it like slug. But then slug penetrate more. If looking for fatal, would expansion matter more than penetration? But I still think slug is better at point-blank.

    Please help. And wouldn't the 000 buckshot be more powerful than the 00 ones?
     
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  2. Odd Job

    Odd Job Moderator Staff Member

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    Is this a self defense scenario at home?
    If so, the buckshot will work fine in most cases and you'll have less risk of over-penetration.
     
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  3. dodo bird

    dodo bird Member

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    Unless it for hunting. I assume you mean which is a better threat stopper. Maybe title should be edited for more meaningful responses. Welcome to THR.
     
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  4. ksg00

    ksg00 Member

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    I'm sorry, I mean for both hunting and self defense. Can you give me advice on both case of which ammo is better?

    I always always thought slug is better under both circumstances regardless.
    And I mean I know if hunt something like a deer, you need slug.

    So if it home defense, you don't need slug?

    And is there a difference in fatal rate between 00 buckshot and 000 ones? 000 ones are bigger though.
     
  5. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    The more likely scenario of point shooting at speed in an HD situation as well as less penetration potential would favor buckshot.

    For hunting, a slug is better in almost every scenario. There are only a few situations in which I would say buckshot is superior and shooting at moving game at closer ranges would be one of them. Some will only use buckshot when hunting hogs with dogs. I don’t know why this is because I have never done it before nor researched it. I have shot enough deer with buckshot to know it works but most people don’t use it within its limitations or within their own skill set.
     
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  6. Pete D.

    Pete D. Member

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    not a matter of "need". If, under the pressure of a home defense scenario, you fire the gun and miss what or who you are shooting at, buckshot presents less of a threat to others. A slug will penetrate walls much more readily (not that a load of buckshot won't) and there may be people behind those walls.
     
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  7. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    The answer is complex.
    At short range, there is little difference in lethality on humans.
    As distance increases, lethality favors the slug. However, neither are especially effective at ranges beyond 75yds, or so.
    Even that has exceptions. For instance, I have a Mossberg M220 20ga. It is a bolt-action, rifled barrel, slug specific gun, particularly for sabot-slugs. With the Remington Accutip slugs it is accurate and lethal beyond 200yds.

    Buckshot fired from a cylinder choke has a spread rate of approximately 1” for each yard. Hence, a 10” pattern at 30’ (10yds). Fired from a modified choke, a pattern may only spread 10” at 25Yds. (Modified typically best with large buckshot). Small buckshot can be particularly lethal on humans but lacks penetration against “hard” targets. Metal doors, even plate glass stop or dramatically reduce power of small buckshot.
    Under 50yds, shotguns are formidable weapons. Buckshot is most effective under 25yds, under 10yds, it makes little difference.
    Standard “Foster” style hollow base rifled slugs have poor penetration compared to solid sabot style slugs.
    Like I said, COMPLEX topic.
     
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  8. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Point blank is a poor choice of terms, as it is more fitting for single projectiles. Thus, the correct answer to the question as posed would be a slug. However, that's not what you really want to know.

    First, let's look at the term point blank, since you seem obsessed with it.

    Point Blank is a term describing the maximum range at which a single projectile will hit within a specified diameter without having to adjust the sights. As in the point blank range of the M16A1 with M193 ball ammunition with the sights set at 25 meters is 273 meters. (I have a lot of personal experience with that one....) One would not have to adjust the sights or 'hold over' when firing at a human torso sized target when firing out to 273 meters with an M16A1 and M193 ammo.
    Goose Gespato gives a very good synopsis of the relative shortcomings of both rounds.
    I'll add that you need to check your state's hunting laws in re the hunting part of your question. Many states don't allow hunting big game with buckshot, and for good reason.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  9. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    At what distance? What choke?

    00 buck and slug act similar at very c close range.

    The slug will be more effective at longer range.

    You are asking which one is best, but that really goes against one of the strongest aspects of the shotgun: versatility.

    ETA: goose nails it
     
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  10. Meeks36

    Meeks36 Member

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    Slugs for hunting. Buck shot for home defense. If you are worried about over penetration use #3 or #4 buck. Smaller pellets but there is more pellets. I keep #4 I believe it's 34 pellets.
     
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  11. jamesinalaska

    jamesinalaska Member

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    Slugs:
    Deer, black bear, hogs, moose,
    00. Buckshot:
    Racoons, dogs foaming at the mouth, foxes trying to dig their way into the henhouse,

    I voted for slugs for their general usefulness.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2019
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  12. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

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    Assuming that you're shooting at soft, squishy things like humans - buckshot will be more reliably lethal.

    000 pellets are bigger, so you get fewer of them per shot.

    When choosing buckshot, the balance is hit probability (number of pellets per shot) versus size of shot (likelihood of adequate penetration). Most HD / SD buckshot loads have settled on 00 in 8 or 9 pellet loadings as the best compromise.
     
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  13. Starter52

    Starter52 Member

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    Assuming that you get all the buckshot to hit the target then I would give the edge to buckshot.

    At partial pattern distances then the slug.
     
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  14. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    Both are over rated.

    Buckshot can be effective if you're close enough to get multiple lead balls into the target. 00 buck typically has 9 balls. If you can get 1/2 or more of them into the vital areas of a threat chances are good they will be effective, which means pretty close with most cylinder choked combat type shotguns. If you only get 1-2 balls into the target it may well kill the person/animal you shot,but it could be a while. It is all about the range and the pattern you get with the individual shotgun. Buckshot's biggest advantage is a pattern making it easier to hit a moving target.

    Slugs will usually give good penetration and a single hit to the vitals will poke a big hole through whatever you hit.

    At the ranges either is effective I'd rather have a handgun and much rather have a rifle.
     
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  15. Jeb Stuart

    Jeb Stuart Member

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    I have hunted with shotgun since I could first pick one up. Many deer clubs, individual hunts etc. all with Buckshot. Yes, most within short range and both standing and many running shots. The Shotgun with Buckshot has for me and others, has always been the right tool of choice for the environment we have hunted in. I have no use for a rifle for Deer, or Turkey. If I needed more distance then I would go with the slug barrel. Prefer the shotgun for home defense. Each to his own.
     
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  16. labnoti

    labnoti Member

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    It was an oversimplified question. This is my best shot at an oversimplified answer:

    Given enough distance to begin spreading, the buckshot will cause a larger entry wound, and a greater total volume of wound channel, but as the distance increases further, the pattern will increase so that fewer pellets will hit the target and at some point the individual pellets will not achieve sufficient penetration. At some point in range, the slug that hits its target gains the advantage of effectiveness over buckshot because the whole mass of the load strikes the target beyond those ranges where the shot pattern has spread larger than the target, and the slug will also penetrate deeper than pellets beyond the range where the pellets have begun to penetrate insufficiently. The exact range where shot gains an advantage and the farther range where it begins to lose its advantage would depend on factors like the bore, barrel length, number of pellets, pellet size, pellet hardness, wad design, choke, powder charge, and on the specific parameters of the slug as well.

    To determine the appropriate ranges for a specific gun and cartridge, it's best to pattern it on paper at various ranges. Generally speaking, one could expect that it's possible to find a buckshot load that will be better than most slugs at the greatest ranges typical inside a typical middle-class suburban home. Buckshot loads need special features like "flight control" wads and larger 00 pellets (as opposed to #4 buck) to stay effective at ranges out to 40 yards. There is probably some overlap somewhere between 20 yards and 60 yards where it would be hard to say which is better. The overlap could be narrower than that, but I couldn't predict it.

    I would not use buckshot to avoid overpenetration. Even #4 will penetrate right through many layers of normal building materials. Hit your target and be aware of what is beyond it.
     
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  17. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    As far as slugs go, in my 12 gauge 870 I use Winchester’s 1oz segmented slug for HD, I keep 4 of them in my 870’s side-saddle.

    These are designed to break into three 1/3 oz (145 grain) pieces upon impact with soft targets, and hold together against harder ones. I was convinced they work as advertised during a couple of demos with gel and barrier tests.

    I keep the extended mag and the remaining two side saddle slots loaded with Federal #1 buckshot. I found this to be the best combo of a higher pellet count than 00 (16 vs 9), with a .30 cal.- 40 grain pellet size for enough penetration should I need to use them to defend the castle. (00 is .33 cal. and 53 gr).

    No gun/caliber/ammo combo is perfect, each one will have a compromise or two somewhere within the choice. My best suggestion is to try a bunch of different buckshot and slug ammo in your Shotgun(s) and see what works reliably and effectively for you.

    Good luck with your search.

    Stay safe.
     
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  18. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    00 buck to me (others im sure will disagree) is overwhelming firepower inside of a typical building. Using slugs for home defense is just reckless if others live with you or in close proximity.
    I do believe the slug is a more powerful choice but not appropriate in most circumstances for up close defense, hunting is another story.
     
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  19. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    Slugs and 00 Buck will penetrate sheet rock AND external walls. Yes, there have been tests. #4 Buck is less likely to take out the whole house.

    I suggest that the OP has a lot more research to do around his question.
     
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  20. ksg00

    ksg00 Member

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    Thank you Sir Odd Job, Sir dodo bird, Sir earlthegoat2, Sir Pete D, Sir GooseGestapo, Sir entropy, Sir Corpral Agarn, Sir Meeks36, Sir jamesinalaska, Sir rbernie, Sir Starter52, Sir jmr40, Sir Jeb Stuart, Sir labnoti, Sir Riomouse911, Sir Obturation, and Sir DocRock for help answer my question.


    The only shotgun I have is the Kel-Tec KSG one, which slug would be the best go in there? I haven't buy any ammo yet, I want to do research first before I load any ammo in.
    I not plan to use the gun for hunting or home defense, I just want to use it at shooting range, just for a hobby. I'm too chicken to kill any animal.

    I have a question about the spread out of buckshot vs. slug. L
    et say, just an example let say you have a dead deer hang up in front of you. And you aim the KSG at the deer belly, like at point blank range, then I guess slug will make a bigger hole? But to expand the deer belly buckshot will do the job since all 9 pellets will go to the beer belly? Which one would blast the deer belly to pieces more if aim right point blank and shoot? Buckshot pellets? Or both would have the same outcome?

    Sorry if my question sound stupid, thank you for be patient with me. English is my third language.
     
  21. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    Oh, blasting apart a dead deer belly? 00 buck all the way.
     
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  22. ksg00

    ksg00 Member

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    Yes, I want to use my Kel-Tec KSG just for outdoor shooting range, hobby thing. No hunting, and ofcourse I never want to have to be in a situation where I have to use my shotgun for home defense.

    How come 00 buck Sir Obturation? It is because the deer already dead, or it because at such close distance the 9 pellets will expand more able to blast apart a deer belly more than as if it a single slug where it will make a big hole?

    It is dumb to use a KSG shotgun just for outdoor shooting range? Has Sir Obturation or anyone here use a Kel-Tec KSG before? The reason why I bought it it because it only 26 inches long and I'm not very tall, so it easier for me to hold.
     
  23. ksg00

    ksg00 Member

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    oh and I hear they have shells where it has 1 ounce of slug follow by like 3 round of buckshot? So it a combination? Would that give the same effect?
     
  24. labnoti

    labnoti Member

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    The buckshot load at extremely close range is like a pre-fragmented slug. As the cluster of shot encounters resistance from tissue, it will spread some amount. The wound channel will have a larger volume cone shape and more energy will be transferred to the tissue because of the greater frontal area of the shot payload. The slug will retain more of its energy in momentum as it penetrates the tissue with a smaller frontal area. The wound channel could increase in diameter but would be closer to cylindrical than the shot's channel. Some slug designs might mushroom or crush into a larger diameter, but not likely as large as the cluster of buckshot. Again, as range increases, it becomes less certain whether all the shot payload will hit the target, and whether the shot will penetrate as well as the slug.

    Shooting dead beer bellies with slugs and buckshot? This sounds too much like something from Redneck Rampage. The best thing I can suggest is to go somewhere you can shoot alone, a gravel pit, dead-end dirt road, or out in the desert and work this stuff out for yourself. Bring a truckload of different targets that will answer all kinds of questions, and be sure to truck it all out when you're finished.

    Short of that, you could watch some Paul Harrell videos. Just search Paul Harrell shotgun, slugs, buckshot etc. He's done different size buckshot vs slug on drywall, vs. the "meat target", he's tested bolo rounds, thumbtacks, mini-shells, bird/buck combos, buck and slug against 3A body armor, and on and on. He also takes time to offer reasonably intelligent analysis, as opposed to just blowing up pumpkins on camera for kicks.
     
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  25. Jeb Stuart

    Jeb Stuart Member

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    And in some states or areas only Buckshot is legal and rifles or slugs not allowed. Some areas, only Slugs and some areas both, but slugs only from a tree stand.
    Yes, check your state regulations.
    And know your environment you will be hunting. I will not be shooting a deer in a cornfield 50 yds out, but will likely be shooting at fast moving deer bolting out of thick brush/briars and a very good speed and close, most not past 25 yds. (and they can be very quick, don't blink). So for myself I spend a lot of time getting to know my gun and choke and which ammo l will be using well before the season.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
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