Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by moooose102, Apr 7, 2008.
J&G Sales has PA63s at a $140 last I looked.
Everyone says to buy a Wolf spring kit first thing.
My Kel Tec P11 is my constant companion for the last 12 years except for about 7 months the cops had it. I have it in my pocket now. I occasionally carry a revolver when I'm in a revolver mood or I am out fishing (it's stainless).
I would not go with anything under 9mm. And yes I would not want to be shot with a 380...but 9mm is my personal limit. But then again I use to say anything under 45 was weak. I would suggest you save up and get what you want rather than what you can afford right now.
I have the p3at, the p11, and the newest - the pf9. Is there any way you can get your hands on a pf9 to feel? It is easier to carry than the p11 (thickness seems to be the most important factor in concealability and comfort) and shoots a much more authoritative round. My pf9 has functioned flawlessly. And it's more accurate than it has a right to be.
Since I got my pf9, I really haven't carried the p3at much. Don't get me wrong, it is definitely larger than the 380 but for me at least, it was a compromise I was willing to make given that 9mm ammo has become so good.
who makes a pa63?
went out today, looked at the kel tec pf9, p11, bersa thunder,and several other small pistols. he even had a fairly small taurus 45 auto there, which is smaller than my 24/7, but still larger than i want. actually, even the pf9 was a little on the large size for what i want. he did have one kel tec p3at there, it was his personal pocket gun. that and the ruger lcp seem to be the right size for my pocket, but the bersa fit my hand the best. also, i am a little concerned about the ammo. the 9 mil seems to be about 1/2 the price with 1&1/2 times the energy. always something. i hate it when you cant get everything you want in one package! of the 2 380's, the ruger lcp feels like a much nicer gun as far as the operation. it feels like all the parts fit propperly, and works smooth. the kel tec however feels like it was made with a file. and it would take several hundred rounds or more to wear in. the pf9 fits my hand better than either of the 380's, but it should, it is larger. and i like the sights better on the pf9. i am having a hard time with this one. maybe i will just flip a coin!
You should really check out the Bersa thunder 380, you will be glad you did. They are a remarkable cheap little gun, that perform like the high dollar gun. I would challenge any Walther PPK to a functioning and accuracy competition, and beat them without ever having a doubt. Any you will have enough money left over to by a case of ammo.
kel tec pf9, have seen them as low as $259, buds had the kahr cw9 for 350. both are slim single stacks....personally, if you step up a bit in price the stimulus package SW is offering on the m&p9c is quite worth it, i love mine though its a little thicker than btht the above due to the double stack, the 12 rd cap acity is nice and mine pretty much dissapears under a t shirt in a mtac iwb...it was 419 BUT i then got the $50 rebate and 2 xtra mags so for $369 its pretty hard to beat
I have a Bersa Thunder 380 and a Bersa Thunder 9 Ultra Compact. In length (muzzle to rear of grip) and height (top of slide to bottom of magazine), they're almost identical in size, but the Thunder 380 has a single-stack magazine and is significantly thinner than the Thunder 9 Ultra Compact.
For concealability, the Thunder 380 is easier and more comfortable to wear IWB. The Thunder 9 Ultra Compact has a 13+1 round capacity with its double stack mag, though. Both have been superbly reliable with a variety of different JHP and FMJ ammo.
Which one do I carry most often? Lately it's been the Thunder 380, since the weather is getting warmer. In the winter when I'm more likely to have a coat on, I still carry the 380 a lot, but I also carry my Thunder UC9 or my HS2000.
The Bersa Thunder 380 may not "disappear" the way the Ruger LCP or the Keltec P3AT can, but it's compact enough to conceal without too much trouble, and it's not too small to grip and shoot comfortably. As an added bonus, it will eat just about any .380 ammo reliably with no "fluff and buff" required. The only time I ever wish I had a smaller gun (and the reason why I'm looking at the Ruger or Keltec) is when I'm going out for a run in athletic clothing (tshirt, shorts). That's the only time I'd carry one of the small "pocket pistols." Otherwise, I'd still probably use my Bersa 380 as my primary carry weapon.
+1 for the Thunder .380... I love this little guy.
If you're still curious about it, go to the range and run a few boxes through. Bet that settles it for ya.
lowtech1, so how do i do that without buying one?
Just find a range that rents you guns and see if they have a Bersa there.
Check out the Bersa and the KeLtec. The reason you should do both is that a lot of people don't like the recoil of the KelTec. The Bersa is a great CCW gun but at the same time it's a great gun to take to the range and enjoy. A lot of people won't take their Keltec to the range and run 200 or so rounds through it in one sitting.
At my local range, they rent guns, but they didn't have any Bersas for rent. They had several in stock, but their rental inventory was separate from their sales inventory. I ended up paying a higher rental+cleaning fee to try the Bersa out, on the condition that they would apply those fees toward the purchase of the Bersa if I liked it.
I liked it.
If your range won't let you do that, I'm sure there are a bunch of people in your area who have a Bersa or Firestorm (same gun) Thunder 380. Get involved with a local shooting club and see if somebody will let you try one out.
Go with the KelTec P3AT, good to go out of the box.
I have 3 all have been perfect from the box
next up a Bersa CC model.
If you go 380, get a Kel-Tec P-3AT. If you want a 9mm, get a Kel-Tec PF-9.
+1 more on the Bersa Thunder 380. Fits my hand great, soft recoil, disappears in jeans pocket, and have never had a failure since out of the box. Downside: ammo more expensive than 9mm.
+1 on the Kel-Tec P3AT.
I have been carrying mine for 3 yrs, I have over 2500 rds thru it. I is a GREAT little gun.
Another happy Bersa Thunder 380 owner.
I love this gun. Conceals easy, reliable, not a lot of recoil and accurate. The only problem I have with it is the cost of the 380 ammo.
You may have a problem finding BERSA's at the moment. Dealers in some areas are selling out of them as fast as they can get them and are having a hard time getting more in stock. The 9mm in my area is hard to find at the moment and is back ordered for weeks. That's how I ended up with the 380. There wasn't a 9 to be found anywhere.
I would look at the Bersa as its an quality built gun with an affordable price. My 380 cost me $ 280 bucks out the door.
Good luck with your decision.
does bersa make a 9mm that is the same sze as their 380. i did have a bersa 380 in my hand, it felt great. but to be honest it is a little larger than i want. i might be able to live with it. but at this point, i am leaning more twords the kel-tec p3at or the ruger lcp. i hate to loose power, and the ammo cost is another thing. but i know there will be times when i want an ultra small pocket pistol.
Moose, scroll back up and look at that photo of the Bersa that lowtech1 posted. See that black pinkie extension for the mag? You can buy those separately and fit them to a Keltec P3AT mag. You can also use the NAA pinkie extensions. Either one transforms the grip and feel of a P3AT. Try it before you bail out on the Keltec.
I am sure something similar will come out for the Ruger before long, just have not seen one. For me, it's a must-do.
NAA Guardian .380
Another vote for the North American Arms .380 Guardian. It is very small, but all stainless steel, and very well made. The more weight, the less felt recoil. The less felt recoil, the better confidence your hand has and the better the shot placement, which is crucial in this "weak" caliber. The less felt recoil, the hotter the ammo you can use to improve the performance of the caliber. I recently found "hotter" hollowpoint loadings from both Fiocchi and MagTech. If you try hard you might find brands of ammo that makes it jam (true with any gun), but most will not. I would definitely inspect the NAA Guardian .380 before you buy the other pocket pistols..................elsullo
PPK or Bersa Conceal Carry
My S&W PPK runs like a sewing machine and may be my favorite carry but is not as accurate as my Bersa Conceal Carry. The Bersa Conceal Carry is as accurate as my Kimber CDP II .45. The Bersa had to go back to the factory because the decock did'nt. I have a Ruger LCP on order and the reviews are great. For concealability, accuracy, and reliability, I carry the PPK for spring summer. In the fall and winter I go with the Kimber.
If you plan to pocket carry, the PF9, the Bersa, the PPK/S, and the PM9 are all too large for comfortable carry, as are J-frame revolvers. It might be ok if your job allows you to wear baggy jeans, but if you wear dress slacks and work in a professional office where you don't want your coworkers to know your carrying or think you mainline Viagra every day, you are pretty much stuck with the choice between a small .380 like the Kel Tec, LCP, and new P380. I have yet to see the Ruger, but I saw the Kahr at a gun show last weekend and was highly impressed.
Make sure to get a backup gun, for your primary gun!
"Mouse" or "pocket" guns are not known for good reliability in general, so better to have two (or three) on you, in case one clonks out on you! TRUST ME ON THIS! This is your line of defense for YOUR LIFE! Make it well protected!
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