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Small caliber high velocity pistols

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Andrew Wyatt, Dec 31, 2002.

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  1. Andrew Wyatt

    Andrew Wyatt Member

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    Has anyone done much research on Small caliber (.17 to .22 caliber) pistols that develop velocities in excess of 2700 feet a second from the muzzle?


    I'm wondering if something like this would deliver decent terminal ballistics, range, and low recoil.
     
  2. HSMITH

    HSMITH Member

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    To get the kind of ballistics you are talking about it would need to be a bottleneck case. This has been tried in the past with only mediocre success. Modern cartridges like the 357 sig have done much better, but are also much larger.
     
  3. Jeff OTMG

    Jeff OTMG Member

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    RBCD offers a .357 SIG round with a 25 gr bullet at over 2800 fps.
     
  4. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Search around for information on the 5.7 FN and the .224 Boz. They are about what has been done in standard size guns, but they aren't getting 2700 fps. That takes a Contender or some such shortened rifle.
     
  5. okeydoke

    okeydoke member

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    both of those calibers are jokes. The

    357 sig, with 64 gr Mag Safes, outperforms them badly. 2250 fps in 6" barrels, not 55 grs at 2200 fps. :)
     
  6. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Member In Memoriam

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    No research, but the idea is promising if a hot enough powder is used. Getting that high a velocity with a bullet heavy enough to have decent range requires a high pressure over the length of the barrel, not just a high peak pressure. Look at the powder chamber for a 5.56mm (.223 cal) NATO round. It gets the velocity over a 16" or so barrel, but it's got good range and terminal ballistics.

    Seems to me that powder would be the problem, but if the other Catch-22 ducks line up, the powder will be concocted.
     
  7. buttrap

    buttrap Member

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    Yes that is the idea that has yet to be the treshhold that can be passed to this day even unless its a few million bucks to start out with. A 76 grain HP at 3400fps would me really nice in a 15 round mag DA auto.
     
  8. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

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    okeydoke,

    Both of those calibers were designed to defeat kevlar out to 200yds. This is a task that I'd wager a 64gr .357SIG MagSafe would perform somewhat less than splendidly at.
     
  9. Ledbetter

    Ledbetter Member

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    I wish

    someone still made an auto-loader in .22 Magnum. I guarantee I would have one.
     
  10. Marko Kloos

    Marko Kloos Moderator Emeritus

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    You can always get a used Grendel P-30, or an Automag II.

    A friend of mine was trying to unload his P-30 today at the gunshow, with two 30-rounders. I looked at it and was again amazed at the crudeness of the design. It's an ugly POS, but it's an ugly POS that holds thirty rounds in the mag...
     
  11. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    okeydoke,

    No offense, but I have a feeling the 357 sig 64g Mag Safes haven't been used enough in the real world to know what they out perform.
     
  12. Marko Kloos

    Marko Kloos Moderator Emeritus

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    A .355-caliber pistol bullet weighing 64 grains has the sectional density of a dime. MagSafes, like Glasers, tend to either work very well, or fail spectacularly.
     
  13. beemerb

    beemerb Member

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    There are people necking down the 7.62x25 in the CZ 52.They say they are getting around 2400 out of that handgun.
    Bob
     
  14. Gewehr98

    Gewehr98 Member

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    They're not just necking down the 7.62x25...

    They're using .30 caliber sabots, and loading them with .223 zingers. I'm getting ready to do the same for my CZ-52, and chronograph the results.
     
  15. DMK

    DMK Member

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    Please do post your results! I was reading about that round in one of the gunrags. It looks like a pretty interesting solution to the lack of defensive ammo in 7.62x25.
     
  16. beemerb

    beemerb Member

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    Sorry to disagree with you but they are making a barrel for the CZ 52 for a necked to 22 case.This is not a sabot round.
    Bob
     
  17. WESHOOT2

    WESHOOT2 Member

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    SUPER-SECRET ROUND DEVELOPMENT

    You want esoteric?

    Too bad, it's secret.

    Contact John Lawson (master Gunsmith) at www.thesightshop.org

    Guru, gunsmith, thinker.
    And ammo developer.

    (Hope he don't get PO'd LOL)
     
  18. WESHOOT2

    WESHOOT2 Member

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    THANK YOU, Mr. LAWSON

    Should add he's to blame for getting me excited about the 9x21 (about 10 years ago :banghead: ).
     
  19. Chan Bates

    Chan Bates Member

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    Purpose?

    >Has anyone done much research on Small caliber (.17 to .22 caliber) pistols that develop velocities in excess of 2700 feet a second from the muzzle?

    I'm wondering if something like this would deliver decent terminal ballistics, range, and low recoil.<

    What would be the purpose of such a round? Self defense?

    Would over-penetration be a factor? A FMJ would go through a lot of stuff before stopping.

    A small expanding bullet that spins that fast from a handgun barrel and is supposed to open almost immediately to impart energy in the target would likely explode, giving inconsistent penetration (virtually none, or if it didn't expand, too much).

    The technology to produce such a round has been around a long time. It hasn't reached the market because those who have tried have probably found it does not meet a need.

    As long as we are talking extremes, small/light vs. slow/heavy, can I suggest a bowling ball at 300 fps? Now THAT would stop an attack, even if the BG was wearing body armor! :)

    CB3
     
  20. Gewehr98

    Gewehr98 Member

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    BeemerB, I wasn't arguing with you...

    I simply stated that it wasn't just necking down of the 7.62x25, over on the Cruffler boards the sabot technique took off some time ago. More than one way to skin a cat, as it were...
     
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