Small Caliber Roll Crimp???

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by flwr2019, Aug 4, 2022.

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  1. flwr2019

    flwr2019 Member

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    Help!! Does anyone out there have a roll crimp die for a 9mm?? I am currently using Lyman products, but I am open to use a different brand as long as it fits in a Marks 7 reloading press.
     
  2. Soonerpesek

    Soonerpesek Member

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    1)...No, I do not.....

    2) Why do you need to roll crimp a 9mm...?
     
  3. Bearded Phil

    Bearded Phil Member

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    9MM head spaces on the case mouth so roll crimping it would be a bad idea.
     
  4. mdi

    mdi Member

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    N/A...
     
  5. mdi

    mdi Member

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    Only if loaded for a semi-auto. But early in my reloading, before I had enough money I used a roll crimp die to deflare some semi-auto handloads. Its just how you adjust the die...

    I have a 9mm revolver, but since I shoot the same loads as my semi-autos and use moon clips, I just deflare with a taper crimp die. But I'd try a 38 Special roll (or profile crimp) die and see. Run a sized 9mm case up into a 38 Special crimp die and see if the mouth is crimped. Easier to see how much metal is moved on an empty case...
     
  6. Bearded Phil

    Bearded Phil Member

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    Since the cartridge is designed for semi-auto action I would think that information takes precedence.

    The down and gritty is, are there roll crimp dies for 9mm? No. It's designed to use a taper crimp. OP didn't really say why they wanted one, maybe it is a special application like a 9mm revolver with cast bullets that have crimp grooves but they'd have to elaborate more on why they want one.
     
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  7. mdi

    mdi Member

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    That's the risk of reading forum posts and assuming your get/have all the info. I learned long ago to not make any blanket "factual", absolute statements (none, never, always types).

    I've been looking for components (brass) and dies for the 9mm Federal (rimless), a short lived revolver cartridge that IIRC was used by Canadian police forces briefly. But I understand, currently it would be very difficult to find a roll crimp die for 9mm Luger today. I only have access to google for searching for odd/obsolete calibers and the 9mm Federal isn't even listed (nor in my copy of Cartridges of The World, or Handloder's Manual of Cartridge Conversions) but none of the modern reloading die manufacturers make a 9mm Federal or Japanese 9mm Revolver die set.
     
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  8. Soonerpesek

    Soonerpesek Member

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    Wasn’t that a rimmed cartridge.. ?
     
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  9. gwpercle

    gwpercle Member

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    It's in mine ... 9mm Federal is a rimmed cartridge ...in fact it's a 9mm Luger with a rim for use in a revolver so it doesn't need moon clips and can still work with a revolvers extractor .
    Only problem was they fit too nicely in old top break S&W revolvers chambered for the low powered , 38 S&W cartridge ... the guns made prior to 1900 (black powder only) ... it tended to blow them apart !
    So that round went away fast ... US shooters have a bad habit of thinking ..." if it fits , it must be safe to shoot" & if something happens ..."Call my Lawyer ...I'll sue everybody " .

    Off hand I don't know of any 9mm Luger roll crimp dies ... try CH4D , if anyone makes one ... CH4D would be it .
    Gary
     
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  10. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    Get a 38 special crimper & saw off the bottem.
     
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  11. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    If what Lee is saying is true? Screenshot_20220805-165659_Chrome.jpg
     
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  12. Englishmn
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    Englishmn Member

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    I made some rimmed 9mm out of cut down 38 spl brass. I only tried them in my conversion cylinder Blackhawk but they fit and fired fine. I used lee 9mm dies and lee factory crimp die for 9mm.
     
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  13. mdi

    mdi Member

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    My research found a 38 S&W case cut down to 9mm Fed length works well. But most of the vendors that sold 38 S&W brass have none in stock, I have .25 tons of 38 Special brass so I'll look into that. Thanks.

    This is mostly curiosity, "I wonder if I could make..." type project and I've got a couple other projects running so this one may just sit for a while. Working on reloading some 44 Specials with my newly discovered 310 kit (digging through my cabinet I found a Lyman 312 kit I had purchased, used, in 1990-2000). Too much fun, too little time...
     
  14. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    *Short version*

    You like Lyman, buy a Lyman M series seater Die for 9mm and you’ll have a roll crimp die.

    ***Long Version***

    A great number of 9mm Luger dies are already roll crimp, as was the original specification for the cartridge when developed.

    I made this list a handful of years ago on another forum, and must make an update to it as it’s copied here - RCBS did discontinue their SET which includes roll crimp. In the old era, all RCBS taper crimp dies for 9mm were marked “TC,” whereas the unmarked dies were roll crimp. Unfortunately, after 2016, they dropped the roll crimp and a reloader has to know the age of the dies they using, since some RCBS 9mm dies are roll crimp (pre-2016) and some are taper (post 2016).

     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
  15. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    These assumptions are incorrect. In its inception, the 9mm was “designed” with a roll crimp. Hence a significant portion of manufacturers have and do make roll crimp dies for 9mm - even as their standard 9mm dies - such their taper crimp 9mm dies had to be specially marked and marketed.
     
  16. Bearded Phil

    Bearded Phil Member

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    I'd love to see a source for this claim if you have one.
     
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  17. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    I'd like to know how you get a roll crimp out of a neck sizing die.

    I'd like to see that documentation also. 9mm what, Luger or something else. I
     
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  18. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    There was a set sold with the M dies, the “M Series Seater” was a roll crimp die.

    Call the companies. I had issues with “standard dies” producing roll crimps about 10yrs ago, so I called around. Had this same bullsh!t resistance from folks 6yrs ago when I documented those findings on another site - just because you’ve never heard of it, does not change history.

    Lee’s documentation is copied above, as an example. You are free to call any of these manufacturers directly to inquire, since accepting information online seems to be difficult for you.
     
  19. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    I copied the wrong quote, this is what I wanted documentation on. It's what I agreed with Bearded Phil about.

    I will check with Lyman on the M style seating die.
     
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  20. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    Every Speer manual I have says taper crimp for 9x19 (#10,#11,#12,#13). Im pretty sure they used RCBS dies. Looks like you are wrong again.
     
  21. eddiememphis

    eddiememphis Member

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    A .38/.357 die adjusted to fit the 9mm case should provide enough crimp on a .355 bullet.

    A 9mm is rated for lower pressure so whatever he is trying to achieve with this idea would likely need a looser crimp than a hot .357 load.

    What is the "maximum" crimp one can achieve with a .38/.357 die? I have mine set at .343.

    Surely that would be enough for a whimpy 9mm.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
  22. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    You are more than welcome to call RCBS directly and inquire about their standard sets prior to 2016, compared to current production - which is what I stated above.

    How we’ve decided as a culture to load the 9mm as standard (and best practice) has little to do with how companies design their dies.
     
  23. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    I’m assuming 9mm revolver rounds - crimp jump is a pretty well documented issue with Ruger LCR’s in 9mm, so a lot of folks ask this question.
     
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  24. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    Can you cite the source for your claim? A sales rep will say anything you want to hear on the phone. Calling them is not really a credible source. "The 9mm Luger headspaces on case mouth so roll crimping is not recommended" Speer#12 page 498.(circa 1994)
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
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  25. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    Speer #13 says exactly same thing on page 500.(circa 1998)
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
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