VaughnT
Member
Anybody try out that tiny 1911 being offered by Cylinder and Slide? It's awfully cute, but I wonder about the reliablity of any 1911 with that short of a stroke. Never mind the cost!!
Smallest and lightest .45 ACP ?
- Thread starter MurrayNevada
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fastbolt
Member
MrAcheson,
You've hit upon one of the common issues with most very small framed, large caliber pistols ... unless the shooter pays special attention to grip stability concerns, the lighter & smaller platforms can increase the potential for "limp wrist" induced malfunctions. A pronounced tendency toward anticipatory flinch can also easily occur, which plays hell with desired accuracy ...
The CS45 pistol itself is capable of reasonable accuracy once these concerns have been addressed ...
For example, I qualified with my CS45 a couple weeks ago. I've previously replaced the stock 3-dot sights with an earlier Ashley Express Big Dot set, so the "potential" for "precision" accuracy is less than it was when the pistol was in stock form. The less acurrate "defensive sights" notwithstanding, after qualifying with a perfect score, I was able to indulge in one of my favorite "self-test" practices of shooting at wooden clothespins on cardboard backboards, and calling the hits ... at 7-8 yards. Before the change to the Big Dots I was able to do this at 10-11 yards ... but that damned BIG DOT simply swallows the narrow clothespin out past 7-8 yards. As it is, I have to "center" the Big Dot over the bottom half of the clothespin at 7-8 yards in order to hit the bottom half of the clothespin, using the top half as the guide for my POA. The least little bit of inattention to my trigger control ... and there's a big hole in the air, but no missing clothespin.
Another thought you might consider ... I also own a 4513TSW, which is similar in size to the 457S. Both have 3.75" barrels and have 7+1 capacity. The overall length of the 4513TSW is 7.75" & it weighs 28.6 oz ... the 457S model is only 7.25" in length, but weighs 29 oz.
Either model should provide a noticeable improvement in recoil manageability in comparison to the smaller gripped, lighter, snappier recoiling CS45. At least, it does for ME ... and you're still in the compact platform size.
I enjoy shooting my aluminum framed 4513TSW as much as I do my customized stainless steel Colt Officers Model.
By the way, IF your friend's CS45 was a very early model, either a blued model or one of the first stainless models released ... and your friend bought it new ... if he's concerned about potential functioning problems being pistol-related, and not shooter-related, he can always call and ask to speak to a repair technician. The very early models were fitted rather tightly in the barrel hood in a few instances (mine was), and that's quickly corrected ... and there was a change in the way the small secondary indentations were pressed into the sides of the magazine, below and to the rear of the primary "P lip" magazine lips (to keep the top round stationary during the elevated recoil impulse of the little gun). S&W's lifetime warranty can be a helpful thing ...
Good luck in your search. There's a wealth of diminutive .45's out there to consider. Personally, I think using the terms "Full size", "Commander-size", "Compact", "Subcompact" & "Ultra Compact" aren't always as helpful as we'd think when trying to describe many of the newer pistols chambered in .45 ACP ... there's just so many interesting variants nowadays.
By the way, if you think the aluminum framed CS45 can be prone to causing some anticipatory flinching, wait until you shoot some of the "ultra compact" polymer framed pistols. One of our guys bought one ... and he's a BIG guy ... and while I had no problems shooting his little pistol, he appeared to experience the occasional "grip stability" issue, which caused an occasional malfunction.
It's always something ... :banghead:
You've hit upon one of the common issues with most very small framed, large caliber pistols ... unless the shooter pays special attention to grip stability concerns, the lighter & smaller platforms can increase the potential for "limp wrist" induced malfunctions. A pronounced tendency toward anticipatory flinch can also easily occur, which plays hell with desired accuracy ...
The CS45 pistol itself is capable of reasonable accuracy once these concerns have been addressed ...
For example, I qualified with my CS45 a couple weeks ago. I've previously replaced the stock 3-dot sights with an earlier Ashley Express Big Dot set, so the "potential" for "precision" accuracy is less than it was when the pistol was in stock form. The less acurrate "defensive sights" notwithstanding, after qualifying with a perfect score, I was able to indulge in one of my favorite "self-test" practices of shooting at wooden clothespins on cardboard backboards, and calling the hits ... at 7-8 yards. Before the change to the Big Dots I was able to do this at 10-11 yards ... but that damned BIG DOT simply swallows the narrow clothespin out past 7-8 yards. As it is, I have to "center" the Big Dot over the bottom half of the clothespin at 7-8 yards in order to hit the bottom half of the clothespin, using the top half as the guide for my POA. The least little bit of inattention to my trigger control ... and there's a big hole in the air, but no missing clothespin.
Another thought you might consider ... I also own a 4513TSW, which is similar in size to the 457S. Both have 3.75" barrels and have 7+1 capacity. The overall length of the 4513TSW is 7.75" & it weighs 28.6 oz ... the 457S model is only 7.25" in length, but weighs 29 oz.
Either model should provide a noticeable improvement in recoil manageability in comparison to the smaller gripped, lighter, snappier recoiling CS45. At least, it does for ME ... and you're still in the compact platform size.
I enjoy shooting my aluminum framed 4513TSW as much as I do my customized stainless steel Colt Officers Model.
By the way, IF your friend's CS45 was a very early model, either a blued model or one of the first stainless models released ... and your friend bought it new ... if he's concerned about potential functioning problems being pistol-related, and not shooter-related, he can always call and ask to speak to a repair technician. The very early models were fitted rather tightly in the barrel hood in a few instances (mine was), and that's quickly corrected ... and there was a change in the way the small secondary indentations were pressed into the sides of the magazine, below and to the rear of the primary "P lip" magazine lips (to keep the top round stationary during the elevated recoil impulse of the little gun). S&W's lifetime warranty can be a helpful thing ...
Good luck in your search. There's a wealth of diminutive .45's out there to consider. Personally, I think using the terms "Full size", "Commander-size", "Compact", "Subcompact" & "Ultra Compact" aren't always as helpful as we'd think when trying to describe many of the newer pistols chambered in .45 ACP ...
there's just so many interesting variants nowadays.By the way, if you think the aluminum framed CS45 can be prone to causing some anticipatory flinching, wait until you shoot some of the "ultra compact" polymer framed pistols. One of our guys bought one ... and he's a BIG guy ... and while I had no problems shooting his little pistol, he appeared to experience the occasional "grip stability" issue, which caused an occasional malfunction.
It's always something ... :banghead:
usnavymasterchief
member
MrACHESON, yours is the first negative feedback I have read regarding a S&W CS45. This particular model (non-1911 clone) is one of the most accurate and reliable of the short barrel compact .45ACP pistols available. Granted it takes a bit of getting used to but I've never heard of one FTF or FTE or any other reliability issue.
Shooting a large caliber short barrel pistol accurately out to 25 yards (75 feet) is a pretty difficult thing to do freehand. If a bench rest were to be used, I think you'd see a big difference. You did point out that, "shooters were developing a flinch." Is it safe to assume that you were flinching also? If so that could easily be why you weren't shooting accurately. Even so, 75 feet is a pretty long shot when you consider that most ranges set 7 yards (21 feet) as combat range. The CS 45 doesn't pretend to be a target gun but for a powerful gun in a small package used as it was intended to be used, I think it ranks up there with some of the best.
Shooting a large caliber short barrel pistol accurately out to 25 yards (75 feet) is a pretty difficult thing to do freehand. If a bench rest were to be used, I think you'd see a big difference. You did point out that, "shooters were developing a flinch." Is it safe to assume that you were flinching also? If so that could easily be why you weren't shooting accurately. Even so, 75 feet is a pretty long shot when you consider that most ranges set 7 yards (21 feet) as combat range. The CS 45 doesn't pretend to be a target gun but for a powerful gun in a small package used as it was intended to be used, I think it ranks up there with some of the best.
MrAcheson
Member
I'm not blaming the gun for being inaccurate. The problem was mostly caused by user error. I'm not an especially good pistol shot (but I'm working on it) and frankly 25 yards isn't a good range for a little pistol. Honestly it did as well as any of the other handguns that day with the possible exception of my brother's 1917 revolver which is a much larger gun. We had at least one failure to feed with it though and none of the other autos used that day had any trouble. Not sure if limp wristing can account for that or not...
Under different conditions I'm sure the pistol would fare much better. It was a nice gun, but not really a good gun for novice handgunners shooting at longer ranges.
Under different conditions I'm sure the pistol would fare much better. It was a nice gun, but not really a good gun for novice handgunners shooting at longer ranges.
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