Smith 36 snubbie

[Drail]

Personally I cannot see any real "need" to shoot +P ammo in a small frame snub (although everyone today seems to believe they "need" +P loads). It is only going to increase the difficulty of shooting the gun. Standard .38 Spl. loads will do the job just fine if you place them where they need to go.

 

[ZVP]

I shoot +P's in my Vaquero. They far exceed regular .38's!
I won't endanger my Chief shooting themin it!
No Thanks no matter what someone wrote!
Dave

 

[MICHAEL T]

Shooting +P only gets back to what should have bee normal 38 spl Before watering down You not hurting you gun
I have a 1945 S&W I shoot +P in it hasn't worn it out . All my 36 's and 49 have +P for carry.

http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2009/01/p-phenomenon-by-saxonpig.html



They have done same thing to the 380 and other calibers. . I have a old S&W 1880's 32S&W Was a black powder load. Today modren 32S&W so weak I shoot them in this old gun . With no trouble

 

[Gary A]

Lol, I have been reading this same discussion, new posts, same discussion for at least ten years, probably longer and the question has yet to be resolved in any convincing manner one way or the other. One would think the whole issue of plus P would be easily resolved by historical data that could be reprinted and shared but it has yet to happen and various intuitive opinions are substituted instead. I'm personally more cautious than some and less cautious than others when it comes to my older airweights. Were I to use plus P in them it would no doubt be 158 LSWCHP as it is an older load loaded to a max of 18,500 psi and it is lead rather than the 20,000 psi jacketed hollow points, such as Speer makes. I tend to agree with those who believe the downside exceeds the upside in most cases.

But, I've been wrong before and would love to be convinced otherwise.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have shot my M38 and M12 Airweights with enough +P 158 gr FBI HP to know what it feels like and where it hits. I don't WANT to shoot enough to wear out the guns or break the bank, it is no fun.

 

[Gary A]

I found a thread on another forum that explains quite a bit about the history of SAAMI and .38 Special plus P, discusses why there is some confusion and goes a long way to convincing me I am perhaps too cautious. Like I said, I would like to be proved wrong in my caution. Not wanting to quote these guys, I think it is acceptable to provide a link to the thread. The pertinent .38 Special discussion is on page two, in particular posts 32 and 34 and discusses changes to the standards in both PSI and CUP and also how it all relates to European CIP. I hope you guys find this as interesting and useful as I have.

http://www.shootersforum.com/handloading-procedures-practices/21362-saami-pressure-chart.html

 

[Drail]

I think part of the problem here is that a "+P" designation could mean almost anything. It's not a "standard" measure of power level. +P only tells you that it is over a certain standard - it might be a little or it might be a whole bunch over.

 

[rcmodel]

Not so.

+P has been a known SAAMI pressure standard since it was adopted in 1974.

+P+ is the one with no standard! and it's like a box of chocolates.

You never know what you are going to get.

rc

 

[Gary A]

+P has been a known SAAMI pressure standard since it was adopted in 1974.

Is there anywhere one can read the standards since 1974 for .38 special +P and the changes that have occurred and when?

 

[Drail]

So "+P" denotes a defined fixed amount above SAAMI standard pressure rating? Never heard that before.

 

[rcmodel]

As of 1974, 38 Spl standard pressure was changed to 18,900 CUP, +P was 22,400 CUP.
As of 1998 it was 17,000 PSI and 20,000 PSI.
As of today it is 17,000 PSI & 18,500 PSI.

rc

 

[Gary A]

As of 1998 it was 17,000 PSI and 20,000 PSI.
As of today it is 17,000 PSI & 18,500 PSI.

That is confusing to me. I have read that +P went from 18,500 to 20,000 psi in 1994 and is currently 20,000 psi. I remember charts in the early 90's listed 18,500 psi and currently list 20,000 psi. When did it return to 18,500 psi?

Going to the SAAMI website I find they currently list Maximum Average Pressure for .38 Special plus P as 20,000 psi.

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/specifications/Velocity_Pressure_CfPR.pdf

I guess the real question mark comes with the 1974 rating of 22,400 CUP compared to the current 20,000 psi which coincidentally also measures at 20,000 CUP which is, indeed, lower than the 1970s and 1980s.

So, was the 1974 +P at 22,400 CUP significantly "hotter" than the current +P at 20,000 psi/20,000 CUP? It would seem it may have been as people have been saying.

It's probably worth noting that the current 20,000 psi, which is also 20,000 CUP coincidentally, is still higher than the 1974 standard for standard pressure which was 18,900 CUP. Is this significant for older airweights? I do not know.

No wonder people have uncertainty regarding this issue.