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So. Almost got into a fight today.

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by TwitchALot, Oct 26, 2007.

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  1. TwitchALot

    TwitchALot Member

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    To bring this up again (because my post was long), I was concerned about my friend's, who were in no position to leave, and the other people there. This guy was crazy- threatening everyone for no good reasons. Also, I think it would have compromised my position and made him more aggressive (just by the way he acted). What are your guys' thoughts on that? Typically I'd advise avoiding the situation too, but I'm seriously wondering if any of you guys would have done the same if innocent bystanders (along with yourself) were threatened. That and the fact that you're not by yourself, and you don't have the keys to the car. :confused: I don't know, that's the hard part I'm dealing with. I still don't believe it would have been best to leave, even though often enough, MY advice would be to do what you have to to avoid confrontation.
     
  2. strambo

    strambo Member

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    Well, the 1st thing it does is physically remove you from his presence. 2nd:if he attacks, you are in the act of walking away (retreating) so, nobody (like a DA/jury) can say you should have just left...you were trying to. 3rd: standing your ground, but being apologetic looks weak anyway. 4th (related to #3) it's kinda hard to get inside the head of a crazy and/or angry person and predict what psychological impact your words/actions may or may not have on them.


    TwitchAlot, by "leave" I really just meant go back to your table, not necessarily exit the establishment (unless it got really bad and this was an option). Second, it didn't sound like he was a physical "threat" to anyone yet...just a jerk. If you think innocent people are about to be harmed, call 911, defend yourself/them as necessary after doing all you could (including getting away from him) to de-escalate.

    Another way to look at it...if it was bad enough you felt it necessary to put your hand on a knife and stick around to protect people...why wasn't it bad enough to call 911? And the opposite...if it wasn't bad enough to call 911, why the hand on the knife/reluctance to leave?

    Reading these situations and making judgement calls takes experience to get better...I got lots of experience with hyped up, drugged up and plain 'ol "crazy" working Hospital security. ;)
     
  3. obxned

    obxned Member

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    Drugs or alcohol or mental defect or a combination of such powering a huge mouth. I think you did well, but a 911 call might have been in order. This guy is a danger to himself, and potentially a danger to others.
     
  4. macadore

    macadore Member

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    Get a copy of “In the Gravest Extreme” and read it ASAP.
     
  5. devilc

    devilc Member

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    What again was the flashlight going to do for you?
     
  6. Guncrazy45

    Guncrazy45 Member

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    I don't know about him, but my plan is to use the flashlight to blind anyone approaching me in a manner I find threatening. If the Surefire C3 doesn't stop him, it may at least buy me time enough to draw my gun or knife.
     
  7. ihopewewin

    ihopewewin Member

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    If thats almost getting into a fight then well I almost died a few times :rolleyes: I guess being in a school with a day without a fight is a rare occasion I see alot of stuff. I can tell real quick if there is going to be a fight or just trash talk I guess it's a good thing to learn.
     
  8. JKimball

    JKimball Member

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    Good question. I've got no training with a knife, so I'm hoping somebody that does will answer this.

    My impression is that it could have been really bad if you had drawn your knife if he had pushed you or even hit you. Introducing a knife into a fist fight takes it to a whole new level, and if he is that much bigger than you, he might have a good shot at taking it from you and showing you how to use it.

    I guess if you're going to draw it, you need to be really sure you need it and be determined to use it.

    Looks to me like you handled everything well, as it all came out alright.
     
  9. woodstock72000@yahoo.com

    [email protected] member

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    Wait your turn. How`s that for short and sweet, oh, and to the point.
     
  10. Rocksurly

    Rocksurly Member

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    Sence he had no shoes on i would have stepped on his toes :D
     
  11. FLORIDA KEVIN

    FLORIDA KEVIN Member

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    i think somebody told me once that if I was going to pull something out of my pocket it had better be a sandwich because i might have to eat it ! Get your hands out of your pockets !You need your hands to protect yourself ! The best way is to avaoid conflict until it is unavaoidable !
     
  12. gyp_c2

    gyp_c2 Member

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    uhhhh...

    ...absolutelyrightnow...
     
  13. Biker

    Biker Member

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    Jeez...can't play pocket pool if your hands ain't in your pockets!

    Biker:)
     
  14. gyp_c2

    gyp_c2 Member

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    ha...

    ...good one...
    I likes the Tull too...
    ...Thick as a Brick, eh... rauch06.gif
     
  15. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    As far as the hands out of pockets/when do I draw my blade situation goes, I agree 100% with JKimball.

    Think of it like this - that knife (or flashlight, if you plan to use it as a striking weapon) should be thought of in the same was as a firearm. LAST DITCH EFFORT. That means, if you get pushed/shoved/punched by this nutball, and you pull the knife - guess what? YOU'RE the one escalating.

    Much better to worry about having your hands free to block any blows he may throw, or any potential weapons he may deploy against you, and then worry about the hardware you're packing in your pockets. Remember - if he gets the drop on you when you're digging for your flashlight or blade, and you get KO'd - that's the ballgame. You essentially don't have a knife or light.
     
  16. TwitchALot

    TwitchALot Member

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    Well, the guy behind him (after I had my hot sauce) was apparently “too close” to him and he threatened to “beat his ass.” More on that later.

    This is a great point to discuss. My number one priority at that point was de-escalation. Everyone was there could have told you that it could have easily broken out into a fight. It hadn’t, and I wanted to keep it that way. The reason I didn’t call 911 was because of that. It would have been conspicuous, probably would have aggravated him, and at that point, it was just getting heated. Calling 911 would have been a great precautionary measure, but then, I believed it would have escalated the situation, given his behavior. So I decided against it.

    The knife thing is also a great point. Let me say that if I had been carrying a concealed firearm in the situation, I never would have messed with it. It would have stayed concealed. The reason my hand was on my knife was because it did not escalate the situation (as preparing to draw a concealed firearm would have), and it, in my opinion, gave me an additional layer of protection should the need arise. It was a precautionary measure that didn’t escalate the situation, which was great.

    Again, my goal was de-escalation. I could put my hand on my knife and not escalate the situation and simultaneously enhance my ability to defend myself IF an attack were to come. I couldn’t do that with a 911 call (in my opinion), and I couldn’t do that if I messed with a concealed firearm. Hands in the pockets- normal. Getting ready to draw a concealed firearm- not normal. I was ready for a fight (IMO), but in my mind, there was a still a chance to de-escalate the situation, so that’s what I did. I hope that answers your question.

    How would that help, exactly?

    1 AM or so, guy probably drunk or on drugs- blind him. 90 lumens.

    I'd bet all I'd have to say is a couple of words (or anyone else, as it almost happened) to get a fight going. I'd say that's close.

    It was certainly a last ditch effort. I was doing my best to make sure it didn't come to a fight. Drunk/stoned guy twice my size? If I couldn't reason with him before a fight, I certainly wasn't going to be able to reason with him during a fight. Speaking of which, my hands were exactly where they needed to be if I had to use the light or the knife- I wasn't digging around for them.
     
  17. macadore

    macadore Member

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    “How would that help, exactly?”

    Massad Ayoob is a master of handling potentially threatening situations. There are too many gems of wisdom in his books for me to paraphrase, but if you understand his philosophy, situations like this will occur less often and if you have to hurt someone, you will be less likely to do time for it.
     
  18. Thekatar

    Thekatar Member

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    Find another place to eat.

    Start carrying Fox Labs OC spray.
     
  19. TwitchALot

    TwitchALot Member

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    Thanks for the tips.
     
  20. frank23185

    frank23185 Member

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    Who the hell eats tacos at 0100 am?
     
  21. the naked prophet

    the naked prophet Member

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    I'm convinced that nobody has knife training. Of course, I've heard that there is no such thing as knife training - only live experience counts, and "expect to get cut." But there don't seem to be any reputable courses that deal with knives the way you can get a good class on fighting with a gun.

    I just carry a baton instead, you can actually find training for the use of an expandable baton (such as the ASP).
     
  22. RangerVA

    RangerVA Member

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    Someone who wants to be on the toilet from 8-9AM? :D
     
  23. Thekatar

    Thekatar Member

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    Look up a guy named Steve Tarani.
     
  24. TwitchALot

    TwitchALot Member

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    Taco's? PUHLEEZE. Carne Asada Fries.

    The PRK may not respect my rights, but it has good food. :p
     
  25. carpettbaggerr

    carpettbaggerr Member

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    Sit back down, pull the cell phone, dial 911. He's not looking at you anymore, and you're just another guy with a phone to his head.

    Except you didn't enhance your defence, you literally tied your own hands (into your pockets). Try it with a friend -- I bet you can't pull your hands out before your friend lands a blow . And you'd better have very good balance to stay on your feet if you receive a good shove with both hands in your pockets.

    Knife's a bad idea. Using one in a "simple" fistfight is a really good way to get locked up, even if the guy is much bigger than you. If you needed a weapon, the empty bottle in your hand would be good for reinforcing a hammerhand strike. And much easier to explain to the cops........
     
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