So am I a sap or what?

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by Hokkmike, Nov 28, 2021.

  1. Hokkmike

    Hokkmike Member

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    Got permission to hunt on a farmer's land who says he is overrun with deer. They cost him $30,000.00 last year in crop damage.

    First morning about 10:30 a beautiful big buck, a four point (not legal in PA) snuck up within 30 yards of my little tree stump stand along with a yearling doe. They were both standing in the corner of a field separated from me visually by some remnants of tall grassy like weeds.

    The does was an easy shot but on looking at her through my scope I decided that she was too little and, further, that I might even be embarrassed taking her to be processed. So, I relented and held my shot. After the deer trotted off, I thought better of it since I knew the farmer wanted these deer gone.

    But, I had made my decision. He didn't seem too upset when I told him. (A VERY nice guy).

    So what say you, SAP or SPORTSMAN ?
     
  2. 9x56MS

    9x56MS Member

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    The guy is nice enough to allow hunting privileges I would try to honor his wishes. Sap in my book. Just one mans opinion.
     
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  3. CoalCrackerAl

    CoalCrackerAl Member

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    Them small doe are good eating. I just got back from hunting. No deer in site, If i was hunting sparrows. I would of had a field day.
     
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  4. Eagle103

    Eagle103 Member

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    If he's that overrun with deer I doubt you'll have any trouble getting another opportunity at a doe so not a sap but a good sportsman. Wait for a bigger one.
     
  5. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    Sap, but you are learning.

    NEVER post, talk, or especially tell your landowner "stuff you didn't do". Never run on blathering about stuff you missed or wounded ANY WHERE. It is a sure sign of a raw newb and detrimental to hunting over all. Never, ever, use the words "my friend" when you are looking for land to hunt or talking to a land owner. He wants people who don't have any friends, relatives or any other tag alongs.

    If you are hunting, then SHOOT, you can't save 'em up like money, and especially so on any land you don't OWN. If a land owner didn't want them shot, he wouldn't have let you hunt. If you are hunting but don't shoot, he will find someone who will next year.
     
  6. Seedy Character

    Seedy Character Member

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    If it is legal, SHOOT IT

    That is why he let you hunt.
    He is overrun and wants them thinned/gone.
     
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  7. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    Did he say you had to shoot the first deer you saw? Do you process your own deer so that you did not have to pay $100 for 25# of venison? Do you have numerous tags so that shooting the little doe would not end your hunt? If you answer no to any of the above questions, than I don't see any issue with what you did. You went there to help out the farmer, but you still have to answer to yourself too. If the farmer really is loosing $30,000 a year to deer damage, the shooting of one yearling doe is not going to make any significant difference. The indifference by the landowner over your choice, IMHO, seems to verify this.
     
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  8. H&R Glock

    H&R Glock Member

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    Whatever you deem is the correct action, for the situation, is correct. Better luck next time.
     
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  9. wombat13

    wombat13 Member

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    Not sure of the laws in PA, but in NY it isn't that difficult for a farmer to get special depredation permits that allow for the taking of deer year round with any legal hunting implement. Some farmers up here drive their tractors with a rifle in the cab to keep the deer herd down. If PA has similar permits, it shouldn't be hard for him to find someone who would be happy to put some venison in the freezer after the end of the season.
     
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  10. Milt1

    Milt1 Member

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    You were there to do the landowner a favor and didn't do it! SAP
     
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  11. courtgreene

    courtgreene Member

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    tough crowd. I agree with them, for the most part. I don't think I'd say SAP, but I do think that if his goal is thinning the herd then at that point you're not hunting, you're providing a service. Different deal.
     
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  12. Atavar

    Atavar Member

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    Yep. There’s a big difference between hunting and predation.
     
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  13. twarr1

    twarr1 Member

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    Sounds like you were hunting, in which case you did the right thing, but landowner was expecting predation, in which case you didn’t do the right thing.
    Clear expectations next time.
     
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  14. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    I’ve recently started to notice a lot of general anxieties hunters seem to have.

    Hunt club drama, shooting does, shooting small bucks, hunting leases, processors, what gun to use, and on and on.

    Do what you want to do or do what you think you have to do. Second guessing yourself and posting on the internet about said anxieties can only make them worse because we will all give answers and those answers will lead to more anxiety about what you are apparently “supposed” to do.

    An example would be the statement, “Would have been a good one next year….” Like the buck you shot wasn’t good enough….or something.

    The reason I am aware of these issues and refer to them as anxieties is because I too was once a sufferer of them. I realized one day I need to stop stressing about a recreational activity.

    So I did.

    In your situation, I would do as was posted earlier and do not say anything about your hunting activities to the land owner. Or at least, gloss over them. Also, don’t be embarrassed about the deer you take. We all are in this for fun and maybe put a little meat on the table.
     
  15. Axis II

    Axis II Member

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    Landowner stopped me a few years ago before I walked in. He asked if I killed any deer and I said I was waiting on him. He said well if I gotta feed em you gotta shoot ‘em. They gave a handful more people permission and now the place isn’t worth the time.
     

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  16. gspn

    gspn Member

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    If you are paying a butcher to process your deer, then you need to consider if any deer you shoot is worth the processing fee. That's a basic question of efficiency.

    If you process your own, then you have to consider your time, and if it's worth spending the time to hunt, kill, and process very small animals.

    Once you're comfortable with the answers to those questions, start dropping hammers. You and the landowner will both benefit.

    If he has a population of deer that are causing that much in losses, you should be able to get all the shooting you want. Figure out what what's too small to fool with, and then get to killing. The sooner you start stacking bodies, the sooner the landowner will feel like he's getting some return on his investment of letting you hunt there. It's always a nice gesture to offer the landowner some meat too. He may not want it, but it's a nice gesture.

    I've hunted similar properties, and I killed so many deer that I could honestly go the rest of my life without unzipping another one and I'd be fine with it. There's a point where it becomes a lot of work.

    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  17. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    I don’t kill yearlings because they’re pretty dumb. But then I hunt my own woods.
     
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  18. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

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    The owner is doing you a favor letting you hunt his property, but did you have any other agreement? If you have one tag and that's your allotment for the entire season, you have a right to be picky. If the landowner sees it differently, find somewhere else to hunt.

    If you agreed to help manage his deer population, then he may have a gripe with you letting one walk. One hunter shooting one deer isn't going to put a dent in his losses though.

    You may not be either, or you may be both a Sap and a Sportsman. Not enough context in this scenario for me to cast judgement upon you :)
     
  19. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    No right or wrong answer. Especially without knowing how your tags and bag limits work. In retrospect it might have been the right thing to take the doe. But I'd not lose any sleep over it.
     
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  20. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    One place I hunt, part of the deal was shooting beavers. IF that land owner ever thought I'd passed on a beaver waiting for a deer, that deal would be all over that day or I'd be hunting the same a public land with other people who WILL SHOOT THEM.

    Just ask any of these guys here in this thread a little DIFFERENT question.
    If a farmer asked you if you wanted to hunt his land but the idea is to get rid of these deer that are eating the food right off my table. Now I already have one guy hunting here who SAID he would cull the herd but he just isn't getting it done. If you can get that done would you like HIS spot?

    Now how many here would walk away from that for worrying about poor old Mike loosing his honey hole?
     
  21. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    No need to worry, you neighbor will or his cousins, friends and co-workers all will.
     
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  22. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    Nobody wants to shoot a spring fawn.
    Sportsman.
    Feeding the deer and birds is part of farming. The landowner better get used to it. Hunting has little ir no effect.
     
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  23. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    If I invited you to kill hogs on my property because of the damage they cause and you told me you didn’t kill any because all the ones you ran across were small, I would think you had missed the point of my invitation.

    A simple “didn’t get anything” would have been a better thing to say, to me at least.
     
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  24. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    Understood.
    He had permission to hunt the property.
    Imho, that's a different situation.
    Most states have nuisance permits for reducing the population. It is usually however, a different set of rules than hunting.
    I'm not an expert, or even willing to argue about it. Just my $.02.
    I dont like shooting fawns.
     
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  25. Atavar

    Atavar Member

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    Fawns are yummy. One year I stalked a nice doe to a shelter belt, she ducked in to the trees so I sat and looked through my new scope to see if I could spot her.
    A deer stuck it’s head out and I shot. When I walked up it was a fawn that probably lost its spots yesterday.
    I felt bad but didn’t want to waste it so I carried it back for camp meat and of course the guys gave me a deserved hard time. Needless to say every meal time what I kept hearing was “Is there any of that Bambi left?” It was some of the best venison ever.
     
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