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So i got to fire a s&w scandium snubby today...

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Antihero, Dec 29, 2006.

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  1. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    I went to a range today that also has gun rentals and i rented a couple of guns including the scanium snub in 357 magnum. When i asked for a box of ammo they asked if i wanted to shoot 357 or 38spec in it. I said 357 but wanted a lighter load. That was a mistake. Let me just say as someone who shoots big bore revolvers a lot this is the most uncomfortable gun i have ever fired. It has probably twice the felt recoil of my Taurus 44C shooting 300gr 44mags. Why S&W didnt port this thing is beyond me, and the grips IMHO suck, they are hard and dont have enough grip on em, the gun shifted no matter what.Everything about the gun seemed "gritty" trigger pull, cylinder release, hammer, the range really needed to clean their guns a bit more i think.

    After i fired one cylinder, right about the time i realized i didnt like the very exsistance of this gun, i looked down at the box of ammo the guy had given me. I had asked for lighter 357s, so i was expecting 125s. He gave me 158s:fire:
     
  2. MikeWSC

    MikeWSC Member

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    Ahhhhhhh, another christened in the beauty of those little lightweight guns. :neener: :evil:
    Those little buggers make closing the car on your hand seem fun !:eek:
    I'm right there with you bro, ooooh that smarts!:what: :fire: :D

    Best in the New Year...... Mike
     
  3. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Sorry you had to find out the hard way, I know I did. When I want out to buy a snub nose for myself I bought an Airweight (15 oz .38 Spl +P) instead of a Airlite (12 oz .357 Mag) I wanted a light gun do I got the Airweight instead of a 24 oz Steel M640 or M649. I would NEVER recommend an Airlite to anyone. Either get the heavier Mag or a .38Spl Airweight.

    BTW, the 125 gr rounds would have made little difference, you would have still trashed your hand!
     
  4. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    I have absolutely no use for any of the super light revolvers out there. I could never understand why anyone would have a problem carrying a 20-24 oz (depending on the model) steel J frame. I wonder when I see suggestions on getting the wife/girlfriend an scandia or any airweight. What are they trying to do convince them shooting isn't for them. Even a 640 is a handful with magnums. It doesn't make a difference what bullet weight. I still could max a qual course with a 640 with magnums but didn't care to shoot more for fun after that. I carried Federal 147 gr +P+ which was very controllable in the 640.
     
  5. pctech

    pctech Member

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    Airlite .357 compaired to Airweight .38

    Does anyone here own both a S&W Airweight .38 Special (642 & 637) and a S&W Airlite .357? I would really appreciate an accurate comparison of the recoil difference between these two series of guns.

    I currently own a S&W 637 Airweight .38 revolver and acutally enjoy the recoil from it. Just wondering how much of a step up the .357 would be from this.

    James
     
  6. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    I shoulda shot it with 38 spec but i thought "hey i fire 44 mags in a gun about this size, sure it weighs much less, but a 44 mag is much more powerful" IMHO this gun kicks way too much for the power it brings to the table.

    My hand wasnt thrashed but i wasnt about to fire more than 5 rounds.
     
  7. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Antihero,
    LOL, your hand would have been trashed if you fired the whole box of 50!!
    pctech,
    Since the Aitlite is even lighter than the Airweight and adding in the Mag rounds the recoil is a lot more than from your 637. Believe me, it's A LOT more!!
    I bought a 638 which is the Bodyguard version of the 637.
     
  8. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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  9. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    Quote:

    Does anyone here own both a S&W Airweight .38 Special (642 & 637) and a S&W Airlite .357? I would really appreciate an accurate comparison of the recoil difference between these two series of guns.

    Using the formula:

    E = 1/2 (Wr / 32) (Wb x MV + 4700 x Wp / 7000 x Wr)squared.

    Where E = recoil Energy in ft. lbs., Wr = Weight of rifle in pounds, Wb = Weight of bullet in grains, MV = Muzzle Velocity of bullet in feet-per-second, Wp = Weight of powder in grains.

    You only have to look at the first set of brackets to determine:

    24 oz gun has X recoil
    12 oz gun has 2X recoil
    8 oz gun has 3X recoil

    with the same load.

    Yeah I used 8 oz to keep the math easy. To look at it the other way a 24 oz gun has 1/3 the recoil of an 8 oz using the same load.
     
  10. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Antihero,
    Please don't misunderstand me, I was in no way telling you that you have something to prove. I was only trying to make the point to others how bad it was to fire an Airlite. You and I both know already I shot only 10 rounds and it was more than enough for me. I could only imagine what a full box would have done to ANYONE'S hand. Not a good design IMO.
     
  11. pedaldude

    pedaldude Member

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    for shooting the lightweight J frames a very tight grip is essential. I found that shooting one handed actualy hurts less but recovery time for the next shot is twice as long. I'm looking for some wood grips for my 642 because after 50 or so rounds of +P the skin on the web of my hand starts to get ripped off and I end up leaving the range with a swollen and numb hand. I had just shot the little bugger again yesterday with 100 rounds of 38spl, much easier to control but still after shooting 300 rounds from my new 45 the little thing managed to give me a bloody thumb knuckle.

    shooting 357 outa' the security six was a joy afterwards.

    Those little guns are for self defense and practice for something like that is a good thing even if it isn't fun or even painful. I never want to have to use mine other than the range. But a cylinder or two isn't that bad. The trigger isn't that good either but smooths up with use or dry firing. I do plan on getting the lighter one when funds allow. I might even find a good deal on one "only fired once" :)
     
  12. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I once ask a S&W rep why they made those (ultra-airweight .357 Magnums).

    He answered: "Because people buy a lot of them." :eek:

    So long as that is the case they will keep making them... :scrutiny:
     
  13. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    Those little .357 intrigued me. Then I went to the store and picked one up. I dont even know how it feels in the hand because the instant I picked it up, I laughed and handed it back to the clerk. No Thanks!
     
  14. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    I just read my post and could easily see why you thought that, i meant that the people that worked at the range seemed to act as if it was a contest in manlyness. When i told the guy that s&w shoulda ported it and added a set of usable grips he said(not exact quote) "Ive fired it a lot. im not sure id agree with you" in a condecending manner. I felt like telling him" hey buddy ive fired plenty of big guns" but in the end i dont really care what the idiot behind the counter getting 8 bucks an hour thinks of me.

    Im sorry i didnt make that clear, but to make it absoulutly clear i wasnt offended in anyway, nor did i feel you slighted me. I hope you accept my humble apology for not being clear.

    Having said all that if id fired 50 rounds thru the Helium Cannon(my new nickname for all lightweight magnum firing revolvers. I think its catchy.....or i could just be sleep deprived:D ) i wouldnt be playing guitar for awhile
     
  15. earplug

    earplug Member

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    J Frame Smith

    In my range experience, I shoot about twenty round from my 638, 642 when i'm at my indoor range.
    Been shooting the J frame for 30 years.
    I don't think shooting more then twenty rounds helps.
    BTW my sex life is not effected.
     
  16. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Antihero,
    You have no reason to say you're sorry. I just wanted to make sure you didn't think I was trying to offend you in any way. I like this forum and don't want to make an enemy. It is very nice of you to apologize but it is not necessary. No harm, no foul!! LOL
    Tony
     
  17. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    pedaldude,
    I own a 638 and fine my hand was getting swollen after 30 or more .38 +P rounds too. The Uncle Mike's boot grips that come stock on the J frame aren't very good IMO. Since I have changed the grips on my 638 to Pachmayr "Compac" grips it's much more comfortable to fire. They aren't that much larger as to compromise your ability to conceal but they do cover the back strap and are slightly extended so your third finger has a place on the grips. I find control much better and recovery time lessened. You might want to give them a try. http://www.pachmayr.com/pachmayr/index.htm
     
  18. tantrix

    tantrix Member

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    When I bought my newest snubby (I wanted one of the light ones) money was no object, I had $1000 in my pocket and hit the town looking. After handling probably close to 100 guns that day, I chose a 2001 pre-lock model 642-1 Airweight that looked like it had been barely touched. I don't regret choosing it over the Airlite whatsoever.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Glockman17366

    Glockman17366 Member

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    "I could never understand why anyone would have a problem carrying a 20-24 oz (depending on the model) steel J frame"

    For pocket carry, weight makes all the difference.
    My first snubby was a Taurus 85 in stainless steel. This little gun weighed in at 21-22 oz and would drag my trousers or jeans down even with a good belt.

    The 85 I own now is a Taurus Multi-Alloy (aluminum frame, titanium cylinder and barrel shroud) which goes around 12-13 oz unloaded.

    The Multi-Alloy is much easier to carry in a pocket (with holster, of course!).

    If one's primary mode of carry is IWB or OWB, definitely go for the steel gun, however!
     
  20. hceptj

    hceptj Member

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    for pc tech...

    I own both a 642 (wife's bedside gun) and a 360pd. I've shot target wadcutters and +p stuff through the 642. I've shot 38 special wadcutters and full power 357 mag (speer 130gr jhps) thru the 360pd.

    The 642 has a kick with the +p stuff and after about 20 rds I get tired of it. However, the 360 has no more kick with the 38 +p stuff than the 642 does IMO.

    Honestly, after reading the negative reviews on the kick of the 360pd I was a little nervous (and I've been shooting pistols for 28 years now). I ran Speer gold dot 130gr 357's thru the 360 (a box of 20) because that's what I'm going to carry in it. That was after shooting 30 rds of wadcutter 38's through it first. Yeah, it kicks and after the box was gone my hand was a little red but I went right back to shooting my 45 w/o any problems.

    I shot 10 double action and 10 single action with the 357's. The double action groups at 7 yds (I don't plan on ever shooting it further than this in real life) were around 5"-6". The single action groups were 2"-3". So it does what its supposed to do, only with more kick than most people want to deal with.

    I think if your an experienced shooter and are aware of what your getting into, you won't have any problems with it. I'm not a huge guy, 6'2" & 195#, with average size hands, if your wondering about that.

    Will I shoot 357's in it at the range every time...sure, not 20 gold dots (too expensive) but I will shoot 15-20 125gr jhp's thru it to stay in practice.

    It sits on my night stand when I go to bed and its loaded with those same 130gr speer gold dots right now. My take on the flash/noise of a 357 vs a 38 is that the noise/flash will effect the bad guy just as much as me...probably more so because I'll be expecting it.

    My reason for buying it? I own a hvac/plumbing/electrical maintenance company and spend a lot of time being active. I just retired a Kimber 45 Ultra Carry II for the 360pd because even the Kimber weighs my pants down half way thru the day. The 360pd I forget I even have on me.
     
  21. jamz

    jamz Member

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    I'm a maniac, maniac at your door
    I own (and carried) an older Model 38 Airweight for a while, and a few months ago bought (and carry and shoot) a 340pd.

    The stock grips are bad, my handsome wood grips are worse, but with Hogue monogrips .357 is very manageable and not at all painful with the 340pd.

    I suppose the difference in felt recoil, to me, would be like someone taking a cane, and thwacking you in the hand with it in a mild, heart's-not-really-in-it kind of way, vs. someone smacking you in the hand a pretty good one, but not enough to want to do you any real damage. Quite a bang, recovery time doubles, but there you are.

    And now, with probably one of the worst analogies of 2006 out of the way, I will conclude this post. :)

    -James

    An edit I just thought of:

    Muzzle rise with .38 +p for me, is about an inch and a half or so. Muzzle rise with .357 is about 5-6 inches.
     
  22. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    hceptj,
    You are probably the only person on thsi forum who thinks the recoil from am Aitlite is no big deal... Good for you.

    BTW, the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel .38 +P and .357 rounds are 135 gr, not 130 gr. If you're not using the Short Barrel stuff then they are 125 gr and 158 gr.
     
  23. The Real Hawkeye

    The Real Hawkeye member

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    Lightweight .357 Magnum J-frames are a bad idea. Even in all steel, a hot load of .38 Special are no fun to shoot, but at least they are manageable enough so you can get some meaningful practice shooting in. You simply cannot practice shooting these lightweight magnums. I have a scandium .38 Special S&W J-frame, and it hurts plenty with standard power .38s. You couldn't pay be to touch off a magnum in a gun that light.
     
  24. coach22

    coach22 Member

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    May I suggest Corbon DPX. For me they have MUCH less recoil in either 38+P or 357 than the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel in both of those calibers. I have a 640 (38 no lock) and a 442 (no lock) both loaded with DPX. My 340 PD either has 5 DPX 357's in it or sometimes I load the first 2 up with 38+P and the last 3 with 357. The DPX 38+P weighs 110 grains (OK in 340 even though less than 120 grains, because it's 38...120 grain minimum applies only to 357) and 125 in 357. They are lighter and faster than the Speer and are supposed to penetrate better. I've had no bullet pull with either. The 340 PD isn't a gun for all day at the range. It's for an emergency and NOTHING carries better in your pocket.
    I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the results if you give the DPX a try.
    coach22
     
  25. NMGlocker

    NMGlocker Member

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    I have a 360 and a 642, with .38's they seem to recoil about the same.
    The 360 is BY FAR the easiest pocket carry gun I own.
    I carry Speer 135gr. GDHP +P short barrel loads in both of them.
     
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