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So I know I'm an oddball but do any guns, past, present, future, have these features?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by IRMacGuyver, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. IRMacGuyver

    IRMacGuyver Member

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    9mm, polymer frame, grip safety, staggered magazine (not necessarily full double stack just more rounds than a single stack), decocker or magazine safety if the decocker is too much to ask? Toolless takedown would be a plus. Call me crazy I can't find what I want and think there's a hole in the market. Compact or smaller so I can daily carry it.

    Future as in something recently shown at shot show. Not as in a phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range.

    I kinda like the Ruger LC9 except it doesn't have the grip safety, decocker, or the staggered magazine.
    Where is the Ruger American compact 9mm?
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
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  2. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Other than the decocker and magazine safety, it sounds like one of the smaller Springfield XD types.
     
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  3. KansasSasquatch

    KansasSasquatch Member

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    You want a grip safety and a de-cocker? I don't think you'll get both. S&W makes (or made) M&Ps with a thumb safety and trigger safety. Springfield makes XD's with a grip safety and trigger safety. Besides the XD series and 1911s I can't think of any pistols with a grip safety.​
     
  4. JONWILL

    JONWILL Member

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    Canik canik.jpg . It has a decocker on the top of the slide. It has all the features you want.
     
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  5. rust collector

    rust collector Member

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    Grip safeties are rare these days. The CZ P07 and 09 have all the other features, but no grip safeties. The S&W shield ez is the only recent grip safety design that comes to mind, and it is in 380 only.
     
  6. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    Frame and grip safety, plus decocker? Wow.

    Cant say as that they make a gun with all them redundant features. Your closest will likely suggested above. An XD, FN or HK have some but not all of your requests.

    I guess the Ruger SR9c has a frame and magazine safety, no grip safety though. Good little gun though.
     
  7. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    If people spent more time shooting guns then reading about them, they would find that there are a lot of features on some guns that are put there for people that don't shoot much.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
  8. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    :rofl: You owe me a keyboard!
    What you say is likely very true. But it's still funny .....;)
     
  9. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    That's a lot of features...........

    We could call it the "Redunderator".
     
  10. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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    It's been my experience as an instructor that folks who want multiple manual safeties usually do not shoot/handle their weapons enough to feel comfortable with them. when the weapon becomes "a part of your hand" you will no longer feel the need for manual safeties.
     
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  11. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    THAT MANY redundant safeties will probably leave the shooter finding that he or she didn't deactivate one of them when she or he needed to.

    I have an XDm and like it a lot, and it took a while to get comfortable with the grip safety -- you couldn't just grab the gun and pull the trigger -- it had to be RIGHT in your hand. Had there also been a frame safety to deal with, (and, perhaps, overlook) -- I would have just traded it away.
     
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  12. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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    The only REAL safety is between your ears.
     
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  13. somethingbenign

    somethingbenign Member

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    Such a warm welcome to a new member guys....

    Guyver, that combination of features hasn't been made as far as I'm aware. The easiest route would be to decide which safety you don't absolutely have to have and go from there. On second thought the XDe might have all three but I think it is just a single stack. Good luck and welcome to the high road.
     
  14. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    I don't think Cheygriz was being snarky when he responded as he did. I suspect he was just making a simple statement that is undeniably true: the most important safety mechanism isn't built into the gun. I generally agree.

    That said, there are times when I'd like a frame-mounted safety on a SA gun with a round chambered, for example.

    If I were to carry that SA gun with round chambered and the safety off, you might say that the most important safety mechanism has already malfunctioned!! :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
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  15. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    As others have said, I'm not aware of all those features on a single gun. If you were willing to accept a frame-mounted, down-to-fire manual safety in lieu of the grip safety, a S&W M&P can be had with a lot of the rest, and I think that's true for the M&P Compact as well.

    I'm curious as to how those two features would be regarded as substitutes for one another. They serve pretty different purposes. The decocker is to make the first shot a longer/heavier trigger pull. The magazine safety is to prevent administrative handling accidents ("honest, chief, I thought it was unloaded!") and/or provide an emergency "kill switch" for a gun that is being grabbed by an assailant. They don't really have much to do with one another... I'm interested in the OP's thoughts as to how they relate or might substitute for one another.
     
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  16. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    No grip safety on an XD E. Which makes sense, with a frame mounted safety and a decocker, there doesnt seem to be a need for the grip safety (or the frame safety AFAIAC if you ain't going cocked and locked)
     
  17. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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    I wasn't being snarky at all. Simply stating that caution and common sense are better "safeties" than any mechanical device.
     
  18. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Careful driving is the best way to stay safe in a car... but I still want my cars to have seat belts and airbags. Neither is a substitute for the other. And wanting the latter is not a sign that you are planning to fail on the former.
     
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  19. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    While I agree, seatbelts and airbags are a good thing.

    But a practiced and confident driver might not want a speed governer, lane and brake assist and proximity warnings. Etc, etc

    My dads truck has all that jazz and I find it both unnessary and distracting. For me, YMMV.

    That said, if it works for someone else, great.
     
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  20. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    If we were really trying to get close on an automotive analogy, it would be an emergency/hand brake. It has the potential to frustrate/confuse a driver who is not used to it (like a safety), but allows another way of exerting manual control over the functionality of the car (like a safety). It's also similar to a safety in that, just because you have the e-brake applied, you shouldn't push the accelerator while the car is in gear and someone is in immediately front of you - just as you should point the gun at something you don't want to shoot and/or get your finger on the trigger merely because you have the safety on.

    ETA: Gosh, I've lost track of which safeties we were even talking about. Who knows?
     
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  21. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    An XD gets you close, in a striker fired pistol.
    A CZ gets you close, in a DA/SA pistol.

    Both are remarkably safe if you do your part. Once you take some time to study trigger styles, you'll see that you don't need all of the safeties sometimes, to still properly use the pistol.

    For example, on a DA/SA pistol, once decocked, you should carry it with the safety off. The safety is usually just for when it's in SA mode, and you need to move. You may see some DA/SA pistols that only have a decocker. Or the option of one or the other, but not both.

    For a striker fired pistol, we generally only use the thumb safety when reholstering it, and turn it back off once in the holster.

    With the XD, I hold it low and loose, to get off the grip safety when reholstering it.

    Generally, I only use Kydex Raven or Crossbreed holsters now.
     
  22. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    With a well-positioned thumb safety, that is totally pointless. The safety will have pressure applied by the strong-side thumb during shooting regardless. Doesn't matter whether it was on in holster, it's off by the time you're close to on-target or you're doing something odd.
     
  23. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    I find this a dangerous practice as it is possible (and has happened to me) to engage the safety while in the holster and you probably are not practiced to disengage on the draw. I am a proponent of using, and training to use all safety features present on a gun.

    When I had an XD I put my thumb on the top of the slide while holstering, like you would if you were riding the hammer on a DA/SA. Comfortable motion and still disengages the safety.
     
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  24. milemaker13

    milemaker13 Member

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    Cz P-09 only has the decocker (which can be user- swapped out for a manual thumb safety if desired). It does not have a magazine safety or a grip safety. And it is also a large service sized weapon. I think the p-07 is smaller but w/ similar features ( I do not have the 07 so I could be wrong here)
     
  25. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    I was thinking of an M&P manual safety, but agree. That's why I dislike manual safeties on striker fired pistols, and prefer the decock only lever on DA/SA pistols.

    In my opinion. If you want hardcore safeties. But still want speed in the draw. A good cocked and locked 1911 is the way to go. (assuming you spend enough to get a decent one)

    Are there any DA/SA pistols that will NOT allow the safety to be turned on when decocked?
     
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