So i want my first rifle for HD and Plinking. Saiga or (gasp) Hi Point?

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currently have a 357 mag k frame revolver and i love it
OK I’m going to throw more confusion into the mix. What you want is…A .357 LEVER CARBINE!

Yes, terminal ballistics, rate of fire, ammo capacity, range, and maybe accuracy are all inferior to a Saiga rifle. And .357 will generally over penetrate more than .223. But .357 from a carbine has more range and hits harder than a 9 mm carbine. And you already have .357 ammo. To save a few bucks you can plink with both your revolver and your new carbine with .38 special ammo.

For most real home defense situations a .357 lever rifle will be good enough. For any sort of SHTF outside-the-house fantasy scenarios the Saiga advantages blow any pistol carbine away. But as Correia says in post 27 above, “what is your mission? You need to define what you are looking for.”

The over penetration issue can be broken into 2 parts:
- A round hitting the target (the bad guy) and continuing through to hit something else you don’t want hit (I understand this is the original FBI definition of the term “over penetration.”)
- A round missing the target, going through wall(s) and hitting something you don’t want hit.

You can limit the first possible with expanding (hollow points, etc), fragmenting, or tumbling (yawing) bullets. All three quickly decrease the kinetic energy of the bullet in the target, limiting the chances of an exit, and limiting possible damage to a second target if the bullet does exit. All three also increase (or at least don’t decrease) the round’s stopping powder. Reduced energy rounds (.38 special, 22LR, etc) also limit over penetration, but they also reduce stopping powder, and these decreases are pretty much proportional to each other.

You can limit the second type of over penetration danger by first and formost doing everything you can to increase your odds of hitting the target. A search for “home defense” on this site will yields lots of ways to do this (plan what to do, set up a safe room with everyone in the house behind you, and a “fatal funnel” through which any intruder will have to pass to get to you, etc.) The other thing you need to do to increase hit probability is practice. And since you said you can practice easier, cheaper and more often at the near by pistol range, I think that settles your choice. Get a .357 lever.

(.223 bullets, due to their tendency to tumble and quickly lose energy after hitting anything, even a sheet rock wall, probably have the greatest ratio of stopping power to minimum miss danger. A tumbling .223 round will still go hundreds of yards down range, even with a dozen or so walls in between, but it will generally do less damage to a person after going through the first wall, compared to other rounds. This is the finding of the oft quoted FBI study, and one reason many LE organizations have switched to .223 rifles.)

(I’m not repeating the usual arguments that a shotgun is the best home defense weapon because I assume the original poster has heard them and has already decided they want a rifle/carbine.)
 
To Clange. I looked into the kel tec, seems like a nice little carbine, but i'm a southpaw, and i have seen alot of complaints from left handed shooters having problems with both powder in their face and with releasing/dropping magazines. Southpaws seem to enjoy the hi point.
Ah, thats a good point. I just tried it, and releasing mags are simple with the inner part of your index finger. The release sticks out really far, and is easy to press. In fact, it might be too easy (which might be the problem you're referring to). If you grip tightly it might release the mag when you don't want it to. And yeah, the brass would be ejecting like 2 inches from the front of your nose, so I can imagine that would be annoying.

Umm, tough call then. For HD a .223 saiga would be better, but you can't shoot it at the range. The hi-point sounds ok for now. It doesn't have to pull double duty forever. You could get the hi-point and a 870 for HD later for less than $300, and the wife would probably like shooting the 9mm carbine more than jumping right to an AK (even though the recoil isn't bad at all, the 9mm would be a lot less).
 
hi point is in the lead for me because its definitely going to be the most practical/economical choice for me, and would be a gun i would actually get to shoot every couple of weeks.

I like their warranty and service. And i like the simple upgrades i can make to the gun to make it more ergonomic and home defense ready. I really like to have a hi point configured like the one Lash Larue posted on page 1 of this thread.

im still having trouble committing to that choice. LOL. If i get a hi point, i have a feeling that the saiga will still keep calling me.
 
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