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so let's say bolt-actions were still used by the military

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by papajack, Mar 19, 2008.

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  1. papajack

    papajack Member

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    suspending your disbelief that semi and fully automatic rifles never existed, what modern boltie do you think would be adopted?
     
  2. Buzzbox

    Buzzbox Member

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    News flash, bolt rifles are still in service.
     
  3. papajack

    papajack Member

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    I mean as a main battle rifle.
     
  4. Anteater1717

    Anteater1717 Member

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    Some form of straight pull bolt action. May be a futuristic K31.
     
  5. elmerfudd

    elmerfudd Member

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    I think an Enfield with 20 round mags would be a pretty formidable rifle, but chambered for a more modern rimless cartridge.

    I think a full power 30 caliber cartridge was best suited for bolt action battle rifles. Controllability and ammo weight just aren't as important when you're shooting a bolt action, so you may as well have a cartridge that can better shoot through barriers and is more likely to put an opponent down.
     
  6. theken206

    theken206 Member

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    "suspending your disbelief that semi and fully automatic rifles never existed"

    how about not?j/k
     
  7. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    I agree, straight pull bolt action. Imagine an M14 but without the gas cylinder and with a big knob on the op rod handle to facilitate manual cycling.
     
  8. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    Probably something along the lines of the Enfield Jungle Carbines or Spanish FR7/8 Mausers. Those were the last general issue bolt rifles used if memory serves.

    We might see something in a straight pull along the lines of the Blaser R93 or Browning Acera with short barrels, synthetic stocks, 10 to 20 round detachable box mags, and flash hiders - think jungle carbine like but straight pull.

    Features of the Steyr Scout such as in butt magazine storage, integral bipod, and forward optics mount option would also be good additions. The Savage 10 series rifles with their floating bolt head and large barrel nut are features that would make life easier for armorers from the perspective of ease of headspace & barrel change.
     
  9. Dionysusigma

    Dionysusigma Member

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    I've thought a bit about this... and what makes sense to me is a pump-action rifle.

    Fr'instance, take a Remington 7615, and give rails to the forearm for a light and/or vertical foregrip. Up the caliber to something with a bit more "oomph," like 6.8SPC, and slap on another monolithic rail from the rear of the reeciver all the way to the front sight. Optics however you like, and a folding stock for good measure.

    Benefits:
    Accurate
    Faster than a bolt-action
    Able to take detachable magazines
    Less cumbersome (to me, anyhow) than a lever-action
    Reliable
    Stylish :D
    As adjustable (if not moreso) than an AR for each individual person
     
  10. Waywatcher

    Waywatcher Member

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    Some people mentioned the Straight pull, which I highly doubt would be used. It is a complex design that wouldn't hold up well in dirt and mud. You actually end up using more effort in a straight pull over a coventional turn-down due to physics. Also they were never really used in much combat...

    It would be a typical bolt gun, although probably with a 10+ round detachable magazine and with Peep sights. Like an Enfield in .308.
     
  11. elmerfudd

    elmerfudd Member

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    I agree with Waywatcher about the straight pull. Operating an M95 or K31 is actually slower for me than operating a fast conventional bolt action like an Enfield. Straight pull actions tend to have greater resistance at the beginning and the end of their throw which for me result in the rifle being yanked off target.
     
  12. MilsurpShooter

    MilsurpShooter Member

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  13. Dionysusigma

    Dionysusigma Member

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    *gigglesnort* :D

    You're kidding, right? :rolleyes:
     
  14. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    +1. I always figured I'd get a pump rifle if they ever banned semis. I may even get one just because!

    My FIL has one in .30-06 that he hunts with. Nasty, hard kicking gun! Cool tho.
     
  15. RLsnow

    RLsnow Member

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    i think a group of US marines armed with Lee Enfields would be pretty scary :p

    that whole, 40 rounds a minute thing just makes it all a little bit better :p
     
  16. Trebor

    Trebor Member

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    The military bolt action design was pretty well perfected with the 1896 and 1898 Mausers.

    If semi-auto's never were invented, we'd be using some form of one of those two basic Mauser designs now. They might have 10 round (or more) extended mags, but the basic action would be the same.

    Heck, 6.5x55 Swede is pretty much an intermediate caliber comparable to the 6.8 SPC.

    None of the modern commercial rifles would be robust enough in service to use as a main military rifle.
     
  17. DMK

    DMK Member

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    It would definitely be something short and handy like an M38/M44 Mosin Nagant. I'd imagine the action would be a combination of the Swiss K31 and a Mauser.

    I'd also imagine that if weapon rate of fire was limited, we'd have made some advancements in munitions instead.

    We'd probably also see more 40mm "Blooper" type weapons deployed. Maybe some combination weapon like the M4/M203.
     
  18. Acera

    Acera Member

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    Does anyone not think that the 03-A3 would be used? It was the last of the bolt guns widely distributed for use by U.S. forces. It passed all the tests until the M1 came along. Possibly adding a detachable magazine?




    WOW ugaarguy, I did not expect a reference to the obscure Browning in your post, I am impressed.
     
  19. Funderb

    Funderb Member

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    Don't tell that to the swiss!
    They'll put the entire magazine downrange faster than you will with your fancy mauser action.
     
  20. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    How did the Swiss do in the trenches in WWI? Were they successful in the jungles of New Guinea or Guadalcanal? Did their straight-pull action perform well in Viet Nam?
     
  21. Funderb

    Funderb Member

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    To say they never fought in combat
    is not the same as saying that they built an overcomplicated machine that mostly poorly performs in dirty conditions when compared to others.
    That's what we did with the m16 platform.

    You cannot say however that the swiss were not a fully armed population, each person a serviceman, and each well able to fire their rifles quickly and accurately.
    Because they were and are that.
     
  22. slzy

    slzy Member

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    are'nt m16s and m4s straight pull?:neener:
     
  23. 4thPointOfContact

    4thPointOfContact Member

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    7.62x51 or 7.62x39 Short Magazine Lee Enfield. Issue additional magazines instead of trying to rely on strippers. The Ishapore 2A1 holds 12 rounds, and there is one model SMLE that takes single-stack AK magazines. A little redesign and the receiver could accept double-stack 30-round magazines. Or....drums!! whoot!


    I know I can empty 24 rounds thru a 2A1 faster by changing magazines once, than to charge the magazine with 4 stripper clips.
     
  24. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    No straight pull bolt rifle has ever lived up to combat standards.
    No, that's what Robert MacNamara did. The Army rejected the M16 and MacNamara forced it on us.
     
  25. Essex County

    Essex County Member

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    As much as I love my K31's, My thoughts are for an updated and refined Lee Enfield. Some modern design improvements and materials might make for a pretty battle rifle. Essex
     
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