So much for "9mm is plenty."

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This is when I really miss seeing fresh installments of Cooper's Commentaries...

I can only imagine his take on this little story.
 
They should arrest and charge with obstruction whatever it was that slowed the bullets down. I'm betting there's an innocent bystander they aren't talking about yet.

/sarcasm
 
Much more to this story. Can't imagine a 9mm that can cycle a pistol reliably not passing through cotton duck.


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I' with X-Rap on this, can't see them cycling the pistol and then failing to penetrate the jacket.

I wonder if they didn't get their facts wrong. He may well have been big/fat and the jacket caused them to expand some and therefore not penetrate enough to stop him maybe?

Can't expect most police nor the press to understand ballistics well enough to have this right initially.
 
The citizen is dead. The bullets worked.

No data about the bullets being stopped on the near or far side of the jacket.

Sounds like spin to deflect why the citizen was shot dead instead of tased. Another NY citizen killed and a bystander hit by one too many bullets fired but the focus is about a canvas winter coat being bullet resistant?

Nothing to learn here. Plenty of ammo passes thru coats and denim in tests. Was this ammo in the gun over 6 months, constantly chambered, and what kind?

Regardless - the citizen is dead, and obviously bled out from the pic. How did the bullets fail to stop? We don't know if the first did the job but the others fired by overreaction - a frequent issue in NY shootings.

It usually boils down to the first report is wrong and when all the facts come out there's plenty of reasons why something did happen - just not the way a preliminary report from the media intent on spinning their agenda tells it.
 
Just keep in mind that not all media sources have the same agenda, even in NYC, and the quality of reporting varies greatly among the publishers, no matter whose agenda is being pushed. From my experience with the NY post, they may have got the facts wrong, but outside of sensationalism selling more subscriptions I don't see how it benefits them to make something like this up.
 
As someone mentioned already it's more believable that several bullets got stuck in the jacket after passing through the perp. Or possibly passing through something else before hitting the perp. (Car door ect ect.)


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Bad thing about this and most other gun related reporting is that the follow up never seems to come, of course it's the same with other stories that run counter to the agenda, "nothing to see here folks, move along".

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Well then.....

It seems there IS a reason to have more than the 7 rounds allowed by the SAFE Act in NY.

NY will probably move to ban Carhart or regulate how thick a jacket can be made in order to promote public safety.
 
NY will probably move to ban Carhart or regulate how thick a jacket can be made in order to promote public safety.
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More likely to ban Carhart because it is discriminatory.

They advertise it as "workwear", which is clearly discriminatory and offensive to those who don't have a job.
 
All this story tells me is that bullets fail, regardless of the technology and engineering into modern bullet designs they still have the ability to react entirely different on a human than on ballistics gel in a lab.
 
I hope this sparks an exodus by police departments back to 40 S&W.

I see all these cheap police turn-ins for sale but they're all 40 cal.

If they start turning in their nines, I'll buy em!
 
Just goes to show you gotta know what your bullet, regardless of caliber, will do in many media. Fancy bullets with fancy names doesn't always have "fancy" results.

Good, proven designs at a reasonable speed do great things in most any reasonable caliber. Get a stupid, gimmicky bullet, and it's a non-starter regardless of how much powder you put behind it.
 
I hope this sparks an exodus by police departments back to 40 S&W.

I see all these cheap police turn-ins for sale but they're all 40 cal.

If they start turning in their nines, I'll buy em!
Click to expand...

Comment of the Day Award Winner.
 
thewillweeks said:
Just goes to show you gotta know what your bullet, regardless of caliber, will do in many media. Fancy bullets with fancy names doesn't always have "fancy" results.

Good, proven designs at a reasonable speed do great things in most any reasonable caliber. Get a stupid, gimmicky bullet, and it's a non-starter regardless of how much powder you put behind it.
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What? :confused:

Are you saying Speer Gold Dot is a stupid, gimmicky bullet?

Or are you saying that the guy dropping dead in the middle of the street is a failure to stop?
 
Oh, no. The Gold Dot is a good bullet, one of my preferred even.

I was trying to make a comment in general about choice of bullet design. Sorry for the confusion.

It's worth noting that a bullet design that's good in one arena may not be so hot in another. And that even good designs fail. If I recall correctly the Gold Dot has been known to fail in heavy clothing before, in more than one caliber, but I don't have the link about that handy at the moment so I'll leave that alone.

Just been dealing with a friend who carries gimmicky ammo lately so I tend to come down hard on anything that sounds remotely like it.

Again, sorry for the confusion.
 
I could picture an off center hit that strikes a pocket or other place where multiple layers might be stacked together catching the round enough that it then glances off the body and is retained in the material. NO WAY a straight on shot got stopped...would have to see that to believe it.

They didn't say what weapon/s were used...maybe very short barrels that decreased the MV a lot? Anyone know what bullets and weight they use in NYC?
 
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