So thinking about an AR pistol....

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by kBob, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. kBob

    kBob Member

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    Looking at PSA lower pistol kits and they seem to have a "KAK Industries Shockwave Blade" as an arm brace.

    Anyone tell me about those, as in what's good about them and what is not so good about them?

    also dithering on barrel length, 10.5 I know works in LEO carbines OK fine but the 7.5 is three inches shorter and so maybe more easily used in tight places, though I am concerned about even more velocity loss.

    Like most kBobjects this will likely go no where but I am thinking about it....

    -kBob
     
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  2. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    I bought one of those PSA kits and the KAK is meh. It just reminds me how much better the stocks are on my SBR's and rifles. Eventually I'll probably scrape the pennies out of my car's armrest and get a Tailhook.
    First, "arm braces" are great for looks, terrible for "shouldering". The KAK being 100% hard plastic isn't mushy like other "arm braces". That plastic "blade" begins to aggravate me after a few mags, its not terribly uncomfortable, just annoys me.

    Reliability and lethality for 5.56? If so, go 10.5
    If you are talking .300 Blackout 7.5 is fine.
     
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  3. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

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    I put a 10.5" 7.62x39 upper on my Sig p400 and it is only a few inches shorter than my DD 5.56 carbine and weighs about the same. Not really much difference but I wanted more power than 5.56.

    If you want small I would go with the 7.5". It depends on your intended use but for HD any loss of velocity will not matter at short range.
     
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  4. vkeith

    vkeith Member

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    The first pistol kit I bought was an 8.5" PSA kit with a KAK Shockwave.

    I was surprised it wasn't as uncomfortable as it looks. It doesn't feel like a stock but unless I'm running hundreds of rounds through the gun, it doesn't bother me.

    I did upgrade to a SBA3 when PSA had them on sale. It feels more like a regular stock than the Shockwave. The Shockwave is slightly lighter but not enough to really matter.
     
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  5. sgt127

    sgt127 Member

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    A buddy of mine had a 7.5” AR pistol.

    He was forbidden from firing it in my vicinity.

    It was like being in a room with 30 Thunderflashes going off. One after another.

    The only way I’d use one is with a suppressor. Of course, then it’s the length of a carbine. Yet with the same loss of velocity.
     
  6. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    Yeah. A .223/5.56 in a 10.5" barrel is brutal. I'd point you toward a .300BO because it sounds like a gun instead of a disaster.

    And for the $35 I paid, I like the KAK blades. Not fancy, just work.
     
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  7. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    I would not want such a short-barrel 5.56 firearm.

    After doing some research in 2019 I concluded (for myself) that a .300BO would be a much more reasonable choice ... but I had no plan or urge to build an AR Pistol.

    ... until I saw that 10.5" .330BO barrel on-sale in Nov/Dec 2019. What the heck ... build one now while I still can, right? :)

    Two months into the new year I realized that I had completed the slow accumulation of additional parts required and assembled the firearm.

    During the Add'l Parts Accumulation Phase, I originally ordered a "blade" brace (Trinity Force, I think) and was not impressed. <shrug> It was inexpensive. I later found an SBA3 on-sale (market down heavily ... IMO, they ask way too much for those things) and like that much more than the 'blade".

    I mounted a cheap RDS and a co-witnessed flip-up rear aperture sight (looking at the red dot thru the aperture helps tame the "sparklies" :))
    I may someday add the matching flip-up front sight that I also purchased but parked, for now.

    I have found the "pistol" the be both very handy and acceptably accurate ... and fun. ;)
     
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  8. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    My 10.5" 5.56 pistol is a favorite.
    Drop in the .22lr conversion kit and plink away.
    Its not just for fun either, it is in my under bed safe for HD duty also. Single point sling, RDS, 30rd mag, and a weapon light make it a formidable weapon. 20180819_164723.jpg
     
  9. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I tried one and took it off. While less expensive than many options and compact I found it very uncomfortable to use on my .300 and 7.62x39 10.5" AR pistols.

    As to barrel length, shorter may be better if you're just seeing how "low can you go", but there are so many issues around short barrel lengths, loss of velocity, reduction in accuracy (due to twist and loss of stabilization of the bullet) and caliber impacts, that I decided that for a defensive firearm on an AR platform that either a 30 caliber or 9mm+ (or anything made to work well out of a given barrel length) was my only good option.

    One other point, the AR platform may not be the best platform for this short format. A folding stock like I put on my .300 makes for a very short package, but the system an AR uses won't allow firing folded in an emergency. Formats like the AKs and Scorpions and others that don't depend upon a stock buffer do give you that option for a personal defensive weapon. My buddies with their 9mm Scorpions and 7.63x39 AK PDWs have an advantage in that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
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  10. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    [​IMG]

    And she's a real Beauty! ;)
     
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  11. Cannibul

    Cannibul Member

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    The only advantage to the KAK blade IMHO is that it's inexpensive. It allows PSA to meet a price point.

    I prefer the SB4A as a brace.
     
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  12. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    I am slowly throwing together an AR pistol. I bought the KAK brace on a whim because it was the cheapest at $50 and I hit buy when the rumor floated around that braces were getting reclassified again by the ATF. Thankfully the latter hasn't happened as of yet. In a determined build I would get another brace, something more comfortable. In a "right now" build it will work.
     
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  13. Typetwelve

    Typetwelve Member

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    I've owned a 7.5" AR pistol for 6 years now...it's, ok. Not good, not bad...just, ok. It currently has the KAK shockwave on it and it too is...ok (at best). It is highly uncomfortable for using as...other than a brace. Like most say, it is EXTREMELY loud and depending on the muzzle device, will chuck a massive fireball when firing. Personally, I use a Smith Vortex and the muzzle flash is zero. There's no way I'd want to fire the thing indoors without substantial hearing protection. I often wonder if it as loud as my 460 S&W.

    The pros?

    Its very small and easy to use.

    I've been kicking around all kinds of ideas on what to do with the thing. Convert it to 9mm? to 300 blk? To 350 legend? 9mm would almost require me to get an all new gun, I've priced it out and it's not worth it. 300 has still not come down in price concerning factory ammo and I really do not feel like reloading for it. 350 Legend is highly interesting and I'm going to keep my eye on it. It seems to perform very well out of short barrels and like 300, it offers some much heavier projectiles. Using powders like H110, IMR 4227, and Lil Gun, I'd expect very solid performance from a 7-10" barrel. The only major issue with it at the time is projectiles...of where there are only a few...if you can even get those.
     
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  14. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

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    What is the writing on the mag well of that lower. It looks like micro film, have you ever got out a magnifier glass to see what it says? Lol
     
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  15. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

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    It took me a while to get onto the AR pistol bandwagon. I love them though, the AR is my favorite rifle even though it's a "soulless hunk of aluminum and plastic" as one member so eloquently put it recently (which I pretty much agree) and having a pistol is a huge plus imo. Nice and compact and very, very capable. I know the downside to using it in self defense aside from the obvious horrible fact that you just killed somebody, dirtbag or not, is that you will be deaf.
     
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  16. sgt127

    sgt127 Member

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    I keep one of the original .300 Blackouts beside my bed.

    If I need it shorter, I’ve got a Choate folding stock.

    :)

    37FE926F-1145-4746-BD0D-9A94716342FE.jpeg
     
  17. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

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    This was my first pistol build. It was my aim to keep it light and very simple. I've considered a 1" GG&G FSB flashlight mount since I keep it close by and it is likely the AR I'd grab if need arise. I havent weighed it but it is light and capable. I put the shockwave brace on it because its light and simple, not very ergonomic but I can run a mag after mag through with no soreness, it's just not a great comfort to the shoulder when firing is all. It's nice and light but also hard if you needed to do a good bonk! on the nose. It's a 10.5, I'm really impressed with it, I think I have just under or just over $400 into it. It's a KISS pistol. I keep it loaded with 77gr SMK OTM's in it and feel good about it.

    I have not tested the accuracy range of it though. All my shooting with it has been within 50 yards. I'd really like to stretch it as far as I can because I'm curious about the iron sights and how far out I can ring a plate with it, for fun mostly but also reference... IMG_20190930_123342.jpg
     
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  18. drobs

    drobs Member

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    Have a couple of them.
    These 2:

    AR pistols.jpg

    Plus this one:

    AR FS.JPG
     
  19. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    Since that is an 80% lower, it was my understanding at the time that I had to inscribe a reference on it to satisfy the batf.
    That lower bears both my name, and Psalm 23.
     
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  20. dickydalton

    dickydalton Member

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  21. dickydalton

    dickydalton Member

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    Actually that is what is next to my bed!
     
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  22. sgt127

    sgt127 Member

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    You have exquisite taste!!

    I have lots of other high tech stuff but, a grab and go, 45 rounds on board package is not a bad deal!
     
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  23. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

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    I was so impressed with my AR-15 pistol that I'm currently waiting for a rifle barrel to rebuild it into a rifle.
     
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  24. Rexster

    Rexster Member

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    I had thought that an AR15-based “pistol” would be a good idea, for traveling in/through jurisdictions that allowed me to have a loaded handgun on or about my person, in scenarios that did not legally allow loaded long guns. Plus, mounting a nice red-dot sight, for my aging eyes, on an AR15 receiver is a simple task. So, I bought a 10.3” Daniel Defense DDM4 V7P, .300 AAC.BLK, factory-equipped with a LAW folder, to be my “bag gun.”

    Well, to make a long story short, I still use a long-barrel .357 Mag revolver, when I bring a loaded “bag gun” along with me. An AR15 pistol is not really that much shorter than my16” AR15 carbines, and the LAW folder adds considerable width. When a LAW folder is extended, the LOP is quite long. This AR15 pistol is much more of a niche weapon, than I had thought it would be.

    I realize that my DDM4 V7P could be made shorter, by a few inches, with a shorter barrel, but I am not sure it would be worth the bother.
     
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  25. needmorecowbell

    needmorecowbell Member

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    I have the KAK on my FX-9 and got my psa 5.56 and 300 bo with the MFT. I actually like the MFT better since has sling stud socket and a bit softer plastic. Both inexpensive and work fine for me. I wouldn’t go smaller than 10.5” for the 5.56. Velocity and reliability concerns.
     
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