So what else can round ball gun do

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by dave951, Oct 17, 2021.

  1. dave951

    dave951 Member

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    Folks who know me know I have a passion for working with kids in summer camp black powder. Part of the issues we encounter involve ammo. After some discussion, we settled on a new design of a minie that should stablize in a round ball gun and be able to deal with the fouling. So here's the new design from Brooks Molds.-
    SAM_0428.JPG

    Most commercially available minies in 50cal are just scaled down versions of current 58cal designs that may have been marginal to start with and definately so in a round ball 50cal gun. Testing this weekend involved 3 guns- 2 "Hawken" types, on percussion one flint and a CVA of unknown vintage and a sewer pipe for a barrel. The test was conducted after each gun had fired 15 shots in a row of this bullet without wiping and then doing a 5 shot group with the fouled barrel. So here's the result-

    IMG_20211017_160146 (1).jpg

    The "Hawkens" were hampered by ginormous front beads that made precise aiming problematic. Even so, the flint turned in a pretty impressive performance with 3 bullets into a bit over an inch and 2 bullets into one hole. The shocker was the CVA sewer pipe. Check out the group in the orange circle. That's 6 shots and the one at low 6 was a called flyer.
     
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  2. Captain*kirk

    Captain*kirk Member

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    Looks pretty impressive! Were these mostly 1:48 twist?
     
  3. dave951

    dave951 Member

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    No idea on twist and I purposely didn't check. I wanted to get an idea of how the guns might shoot and then look at the twist rates to keep from possibly biasing the results.
     
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  4. 230RN
    • Contributing Member

    230RN Pushing the pendulum back before it's too late.

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    Looks like there might be a certain amount of "arrow stability" involved.

    Sort of like shotgun slugs, with all the weight up forward. I am told, but cannot confirm, that shotgun slugs shoot better without the fake "rifling"
    on their bodies, and only fly (mostly) "point" first because of the finning action of the thin skirt behind the main mass. I believe one brand of slug enhances this effect by keeping the wadding attached to the slug on the way downrange. (Brenneke?)

    Sort of like the long stick on small fireworks "pop bottle" rockets. The rifling on shotgun slugs is apparently most important at the point of sale. Imagine yourself choosing between "Rifled Slugs" and "Unrifled Slugs."

    I also seem to recall that one variant of some military ammunition had most of the lead at the back of the bullet to enhance instability upon striking flesh.

    Terry, 230RN
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
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  5. drobs

    drobs Member

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    Strange looking round ball!

    Very interesting and nice looking groups.
     
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  6. hawg

    hawg Member

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    All three of the rifles mentioned have 1:48 twists. Minies seem to do better with slower round ball twists because all the weight is toward the nose. The original P53 Enfields had a 1:73 twist IIRC.
     
  7. ThomasT

    ThomasT Member

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    In one of the Backwoodsman articles a writer who writes some really well thought out articles wrote about shooting a hollow pointed RB from a 12ga shotgun and stabilizing the ball by attaching the wad to the back of the ball to keep the hollow cavity point first. And it worked. What he did was make a paper mache' mix and form the wads in a cut off shot shell case and when dry he would cut them to the proper length and glue them to the ball with silicone glue. They would stay attacked all the way to the target.

    I have shot my Lyman GP rifle with Lee Improved Minnie out to 100 yards and it shot more than good enough to deer hunt with. I used that design in a 54 caliber gun to kill my first Elk with. I really like the Lee R.E.A.L. bullets. I need to get a 50 caliber 250gr mold. I have the 320gr and they shoot fine from a 1/48 twist barrel but I am thinking the 250gr might be better in the two 1/60 twist barrels I have. Even the 320gr REAL bullet shoots decent from the 1/60 twist.
     
  8. BullRunBear

    BullRunBear Member

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    Those are impressive results. Thanks for the mold info and sharing the results. (I bet those kids at camp are going to have some BIG smiles when using these minis.) Can't say I'm surprised about the CVA. Some of those old Spanish barrels were darn good.

    Jeff
     
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  9. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    From the pic I can't tell how far the hollow base extends. Does it go all the way to the nose of the bullet, or the top of the upper lube-groove? Or..?
     
  10. dave951

    dave951 Member

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    It's a minie design so the hollow only goes a little over 1/3
     
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  11. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Okay, in the pic it looks deeper than that. Another question, I don't see what the weight of the bullet/Brooks is. ?

    You know, it sort of looks like it might work well in my Plains-Pistol. Do you have a single shot pistol to test them in? I think that would be interesting.
     
  12. dave951

    dave951 Member

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    Sorry, no single shot pistols.

    Weight is adjustable. It's a feature I asked for when they cut the mold. So far, I've tested bullets in the 240gr range. I'm going to up the weight a bit to about 280 and repeat the test but without the fouling torture test part. I know this bullet will run like a minie was designed to, now I need to check is accuracy is acceptable with the heavier weights.
     
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  13. Lnf Crzr

    Lnf Crzr member

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    I’ve got a 58 w 1-48” twist. I like my prb,certainly with the mold I have for it…. Very accurate,yet someday I want to develop a heavier projectile hunting load.
    That looks interesting
     
  14. hawg

    hawg Member

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    I use a Lyman 460 grain minie ball in my P 53 Enfield.

    mN2vHRol.jpg

    I recovered this one after it hit the soft dirt of a pond bank after going through a metal 5 gallon bucket from 300 yards. It left a hole 4 inches across and 9 inches deep with a 65 grain powder charge. Much over that and it will blow the skirt.

    iN8OBbFl.jpg
     
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  15. dave951

    dave951 Member

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    Well here's a couple that I've worked with in my 1862 Colt Contracts. The bullet on the right is known as the "Rapine Trashcan". It so far is the most accurate bullet in my Colts. My Parker Hales like different stuff.

    20170420_221312.jpg

    So L2R- My modified new bullet, Lyman 575213, Trashcan, RCBS Hogdon and the Moose International. Of these bullets, my Parker Hales show a marked preference for the RCBS Hogdon. That said, initial testing with the Moose looks extremely promising and may well be the new Parker Hale bullet of choice. SAM_0427.JPG


    This was the test group of the Moose out of my Parker Hale. I messed up when I started the group test and had my sights still on 100yd from our last match so this group is understandably high. Point of Aim was 6oclock on the orange circle. The squares are 1in grid. I'll revisit it this weekend with sights properly set for 50 and see if it stacks them into under one inch again.
    SAM_0425.JPG
     
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