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So what's the general consensus on the FN Five-seveN?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by jrb_pro, Aug 29, 2011.

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  1. D-Day

    D-Day Member

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    The muzzle blast from the pistol is quite impressive. I'm used to shooting .45, and that little bottleneck round will really move some air. Hardly any recoil to speak of, just a slight bobble of the muzzle. Fun to shoot, that's for sure.

    One of the main things I don't care for much is the grip. Vicious checkering. You almost don't wanna squeeze too hard, lest it claw you too much. The high round count is appealing for carry, but I've never carried one, and I'm much too enamored with the 1911 and .45 round to probably ever carry something like a Five-Seven.

    I regard it primarily as a novelty gun. Then again, anything besides battle rifles and 1911s are "novelty guns" to me...if you can afford it as such, go for it. If you don't like it, they're easily re-sold and for the same price or more than what you paid for. The benefit of being a novelty gun.
     
  2. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Member

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    I bought a Kel-Tec PMR-30 instead.;)

    Okay that's not true but it's funny. I agree with others, it is a high priced gun with high priced ammo that would be less effective in a SD situation than most common defensive calibers. The only advantage would be round count. That said if ammo prices came down to about the same as other common calibers I may buy one for a fun gun, would never use it for anything other than a pinker due to the anemic caliber.
     
  3. seed

    seed Member

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    You can find barely used ones for decent prices. A lot of people buy one, shoot it one trip and then put it away. Then they notice that they haven't shot it in a while and remember a whole bunch of posts by people who don't like them...so they put them up. Usually they have only put 100-150 rounds through them and the price ranges from $8-900, the main difference between sales posts being the inclusion of however many mags and or unused ammo. If you want one, some of these are decent deals.

    That said, I have one and don't plan on selling it despite my brother's insights into the matter (he is in the anti-Five-Seven camp). I have some 192 ammo, but am saving it. I have only shot 197's through it and saved the brass. The grand plan is to one day reload it to proper power standards. That is why I am keeping the gun. If I could only shoot FN ammo or have to pay ridiculous amounts of hard-earned money on that other ammo (it's been a while, but I think it's called Elite Ammunition) and wait forever for it to be made and sent, then I would not be so inclined. The main problem as I see it is that reloading this stuff is tricky from what I understand, due to the brass being thin and stretched a lot during firing. I don't know personally yet, but I plan on finding out. If I can't or don't want to reload for it, I may put mine up one day...maybe.
     
  4. Skivvy Master

    Skivvy Master Member

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    I have been interested in them, since a friend sold me on the idea of owning one. He had one, along with his many hand guns, (rugers, glocks, sigs) and it's the one he most spoke about when we were listing "fun to shoot." The only thing holding me back (like so many others have mentioned) is price.

    And isn't "fun to shoot" kinda the point?

    Raise your hand if you are always shooting your handgun at someone.. ok, this thread isn't really for you.. as most of us do not. We (the rest of us) will be at the range with our firearms of choice shooting at paper and steel.

    Some people forget that we aren't all 00 agents.

    Any hand gun is better than fists. So get one you enjoy shooting. Then you are more likely to stay proficient.

    Just saying.
     
  5. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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  6. nwilliams

    nwilliams Member

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    I've owned one but I got bored with it and sold it because it served no purpose in my collect that a .22LR pistol couldn't serve for a lot less money to own and shoot.

    The FiveSeven is a neat gun and very accurate but I place it in the same category as the Desert Eagle, it's a novelty gun.

    I will say however that I own a PS90 and I do miss having the FiveSeven as a companion gun to it. That said I own a PS90 because I am a huge Stargate SG1/Atlantis fan and if you are also as big a Stargate fan as me then I know you understand.:D
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2011
  7. 481

    481 Member

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    That is hardly a "fact".

    Actually it's a pretty broad generalization and depending upon the state (and in some instances, the municipality) in which you reside, not necessarily the truth.

    I'd really hate to see someone lose their freedom following such "advice".
     
  8. DoomGoober

    DoomGoober Member

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    1) Rapid shooter, little felt recoil.
    2) Noticeable muzzle blast.
    3) Light(ish)
    4) My women friends like shooting it because of #1 and #3.
    5) Feels VERY polymer. Grips are largish and the trigger felt kind of crunchy (for me.)
    6) The one I was shooting had a little problem seating the mag (you really had to jam it in there.)
    7) The P90 (I know, that's not what you're asking) is ridiculously fun. If you can afford one, get that instead of the pistol.

    Conclusion: Self defense questions aside (I have no experience defending myself with a Five-seveN or any handgun) shooting either the P90 or the Five-seveN will have you grinning ear to ear.
     
  9. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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    Better stick to 9mm or .40S&W because 5.7x28 can be found for UNDER the cost of .45 ACP easily. Even my LGS which is expensive has 5.7x28 for less than .45 ACP.
     
  10. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    There are few actual accounts concerning the effectiveness of the round when used against people but in the one incident i know of it performed quite well which was unfortunate given how it was used. Either way, i don't know why people keep claiming to know the round performs poorly in the face of quite contradictory real world evidence.

    I own a first generation 5.7 pistol. The recoil is not as light as some claim although quite manageable and accurate follow up shots are easier than most polymer 9s. Recoil produced by the round is roughly 30% lighter than a 9 mm. The trigger on mine is heavy and long but the current gens are drastically improved. I believe it could make a great duty gun but not easily concealable.

    On a side note its my understanding
     
  11. GunTech

    GunTech Member

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    I tested my FiveSeven on marmots, rabbits and feral dogs. I had several failures on the last despite multiple torso hits. I would not use this as a self defense round. Yes, the Europeans think well of the 5.7x28. They also thought 32 acp was a good police round.

    The 5.7x28 out of the FiveseveN is equivalent to 22 magnum from a rifle. Yes, they can both kill, but would choose either for SD?

    Keep in mind that a big argument for the PDW was that the military arms market post cold war was basically saturated. The PDW was put forward to boost weapon sales in a down market. But the PDW didn't really take off, so the next market is the US gun buyer (who are much more susceptible to marketing campaigns).

    I ended up selling my FiveseveN. It was a neat gun, but not compelling enough to keep. The newer generation are much nicer looking and I might buy another one someday just for fun.

    Now if someone were to come out with an inexpensive 5.7 varmint rifle, I might take a second look. Then again, I am a fan of the 22 Hornet.

    Strangest of all, I have run into a number of fans of 5.7 who think the 5.56x45 is an inadequate manstopper. ***? The 5.7 is credited with a pretty substantial number of real world one shot kills, with statements like 'the coroner had never seen anything like it'. Many of the sources are suspect or uncited. the 5.7x28 is pretty anemic compared to 5.56x45, and yet supposedly anyone ever shot with it was instantly killed. Let just say that based on my own experience shooting animals with the 5.7 I am dubious.
     
  12. Maple_City_Woodsman

    Maple_City_Woodsman Member

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    I know this is the internet, but can we at least attempt to have a logical discussion without being ethnocentric, relying entirely on anecdote, or comparing apples to oranges? It would be refreshing.

    481, I have no desire to argue over semantics. The bulk of the post you are referencing addressed other topics. Even so I made no claim to know the local laws of every municipality, NOR did I give anyone 'advice' of any kind. I simply shared what I know to be verifiable reality, and my own personal experience owning and shooting an FsN pistol. Perhaps you can share with us where you are getting your knowledge on the subject, and provide some links to support your position?

    There is always an exception if you want to dig for one. Obviously there could be some local law against AP ammo, in much the same manner as some municipalities have laws which make it illegal to tether your giraffe to a street lamp.

    It is fact that civilians can legally purchase, own, and use of AP ammunition on the Federal level (for now).

    It is fact that FN factory SS190 AP Ball is legal to own and available, though prices are inflated. Check Gun Broker - there are boxes of AP SS190 for sale as I type this, though the price is steep at $4 per round. This ammunition has been independently verified to penetrate NIJ IIIA soft armor (PDF from BrassFetcher).

    It is fact that civilians are free to purchase and use ammunition from boutique manufacturers which will penetrate NIJ Level II armor, barring some local restriction. Elite Ammunition catalogs at least two variants of the 5.7x28 cartridge which have been independently verified to do this, priced at about $1.20 per round. The videos are on YouTube.

    All of that said, the 'AP' ammunition debate is a Red Herring.

    The availability of AP ammunition is only one small aspect of the FsN pistol. There is much much more at work here, and anyone who wants to know the truth about the pistol would be doing themselves a disservice to stop there.

    Yes, the FsN has some shortcomings, but I don't believe the round itself is one of them. The expense of the platform is a limiting factor for sure, as are other things like expensive magazines and limited holster options. Those are legitimate complaints that the individual end user must weight against other platforms and other cartridges.

    The problem is that many critics seem to be emotionally invested against a platform that they have no real experience with. That is flawed thinking. Critics will claim that the only purpose of the round is to defeat body armor, and that the AP rounds produce very limited wound profiles. This again is simply a distraction, rather than a legitimate critisism.

    Any AP round will produce a reduced wound profile, whether the cartridge in question is the 5.7 or 30-06. The very nature of penetrating armor makes for bullet that does minimal damage. That is just as true for 9mm THV 'reverse ogive' rounds as it is for the 5.7x28.

    Fortunately for those interested in the FsN, many other options exist for use against conventional targets. Even the relatively weak (and by far the most common) SS197 'sporting' rounds, when fired from the pistol through heavy clothing, will still achieve acceptable penetration and produce a wound which is a combination of fragmentation and notable core expansion. Again, more potent premium ammunition will produce significantly nastier wound channels - just like any other cartridge.

    In fairness and truth, independent testing does not show any increased wounding ability with the 5.7 over conventional 9mm/40/45. Instead it paints a picture of a cartridge which produces similar damage when similar types of ammunition are used. Imagine that! No, the FsN pistol is no more lethal than a Glock or Sig to be sure - but it is no less lethal either. To make a claim one way or the other is to ignore the empirical data we have available.

    That data set brings us to the only other legitimate criticism of the FsN and its cartridge. The sample size of shootings is very small. There have only been a handful of documented shootings with the pistol and cartridge. In the interest of fairness, however, the 5.7 round has performed very well in the few shootings that have been recorded. The limited shooting data that does exist paints a picture of solid performance. Some people will not want to commit to something with such a limited information, and that is a legitimate reaction.

    Even with all of that said, there is still something left. Even considering the FsN's real world shortcomings and legitimate criticisms you are still left with a very light weight pistol that is very accurate, holds a great deal of ammunition, and is capable of extremely fast follow up shots. No matter how you slice it, that is a considerable list of significant real world strengths.

    The subjective recoil Vs. any other pistol is very hard to quantify. For me it is very noticeable, but here are some real recoil numbers compared to a Glock 17 (heavy end bullets in the 5.7, light end bullets in the G17, heavily stacked in the G17's favor):
    ********FsN / G17
    Impulse - .56 / .75
    Velocity - 11.06 / 12.17
    Free engy - 3.12 / 4.58

    Even when the G17 is given the advantage in gun weight and bullet weight, it shows a 34% increase in recoil impulse, a 10% increase in recoil velocity, and a 47% increase in free recoil energy over the FsN pistol. And those numbers ignore that the FsN will have less muzzle flip, and change weight less as the rounds in the magazine change. All of that equates to faster follow up shots with the FsN not just from the first round to the second, but from the first round to the 20'th.

    The FsN pistol and the 5.7x28 cartridge do have some significant foibles. Nobody is saying they do not. But real experience as well as hard data shows a pistol that can put more rounds on target faster than a conventional service pistol, and do so with a high degree of accuracy. That may not be earth-moving for many shooters, but it is far from 'novelty'.

    The FsN pistol has many legitimate strengths that the average civilian shooter can use to their advantage should they choose to do so. Some shooters will choose platforms with different strengths that better suit their needs. Many will decide that the additional performance is not worth the additional cost when conventional pistols offer solid performance for less. Those are all legitimate options, and practical FsN shooters will not begrudge other shooters for choosing another platform (believe it or not, we own other pistols too ;) ).
     
  13. Ben86

    Ben86 Member

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    It seems to me the 5.7x28 is lacking a bit when shot out of a pistol. It makes sense if all you really want is armor piercing capability. It comes into it's own out of a rifle.

    They make 5.7 uppers for ARs.
     
  14. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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    Savage, as I recall, has a bolt action in 5.7.
    You seriously just posted without reading whats above your post and make a statement that its lacking?

    I'm pretty sure that if the internet was around back then when 5.56 came out we would be seeing posts like this about it. Its different than the conventional pistol rounds but the concept is the same as 5.56 and it does infact work.
     
  15. Maple_City_Woodsman

    Maple_City_Woodsman Member

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    Another critic who is only interested in telling us how lacking our pistols are.

    I guess 'Zerodefect' is right - it's not possible to have a rational discussion about this pistol, no matter how hard we may try. Most of the critics are just so hell bent against a gun they have never even fired, that they cant even begin to see both sides. :(
     
  16. Ash

    Ash Member

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    While owners are telling everyone else to shut up. Yeah, not much of a conversation possible.
     
  17. easyg

    easyg Member

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    A quick comparison...

    FN Five-seven:

    Height = 5.7"
    Width = 1.4"
    Length = 8.2"
    Weight = 20.80 oz. empty



    Glock 17:

    Height = 5.43"
    Width = 1.18"
    Length = 7.32"
    weight = 22.04 oz. empty

    So, the FN is longer, wider, and taller than the G17, and nearly the same weight (only about 2 oz. difference).
    And I can get 33-round magazines for the Glock.

    I can't really see much point to the Five-seven.
    Just an odd duck cartridge in an odd duck pistol.
     
  18. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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    You can get 30 round magazines for the FiveseveN. There are also guns much bigger than a Glock that people love so I don't quite understand the argument.
     
  19. easyg

    easyg Member

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    I guess I'm trying to say this:
    The Five-seven doesn't do anything for me that a more affordable handgun does just as well or better.

    Cheap plinking....I have .22 pistols for that.

    Self defense....I have smaller more easily concealed handguns for that, and in more effective calibers.

    Home defense....I have pistols that are approx. the same size as the five-seven, in more effective calibers.


    I just don't see any place that the five-seven really shines.

    Now if you just want to have an odd duck pistol that shoots an odd duck caliber (an expensive odd duck caliber at that), then yeah, the five-seven is the gun for you.
     
  20. Ben86

    Ben86 Member

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    I still don't have much faith in 5.7 coming out of a pistol barrel. It's a caliber that is very dependent on hyper velocity.

    I don't have to shoot one to form an opinion on everything except HOW it shoots. I really don't know how well it shoots. I just know that I don't like so much else about it. That's just me. If it works for someone else more power to them.
     
  21. 481

    481 Member

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    easyg,

    +1!

    Your post is well thought out and considers the important aspects (size, caliber, capacity, expense/availability of ammo/gun) of any gun.

    If I want "AP capability", I can get it from my G17 with 9mm AP ball (apparently legal to buy, own and shoot) without all of the attendant hassle and expense of a much less effective cartridge in a platform that is slightly larger in every dimension than what I am already using.

    The numbers don't lie. :D

    Truer words have never been spoken.

    :)
     
  22. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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    and it achieves hyper velocity with that short barrel. Do you just not like rounds that require velocity? It works just as good as 9mm and this is from a pistol. Also it costs less to shoot 5.7 than .45 ACP

    http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1950.htm

    Look at the videos there and compare 5.7 x 28 with 9mm or even .40 S&W and .45 ACP. It fares about the same.

    By the way I don't even own a FiveseveN.

    If you know where to get some, let me know because I would be interested in such ammo aswell.
     
  23. HOOfan_1

    HOOfan_1 Member

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    Saw a guy at my range shooting one of those a few weeks ago. I was shooting my FNP-40 about 40 feet down the line from him...and his gun sounded louder to me than mine. I thought at first it was an FN FiveSeven as I know a few people at my range shoot those, then I saw a pice of the brass it kicked out and knew it was a .22 Mag, so must be the Kel-Tec. He handed it to me...that thing weighed about as much as a pair of scissors. I've held a FiveSeven before too and it was very light as well.
     
  24. Kush

    Kush Member

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    I don't understand why people in this thread keep talking about the 5.7mm cartridge's ability to penetrate an NIJ level II vest like it is something that other rounds can't do when standard loads for the .357 sig and 7.62x25mm tokarev cartridges can do that.
     
  25. Rail Driver

    Rail Driver Member

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    My opinion? Too big, too expensive. I've fired one a few times and they shoot great, and I love the round, but again... too expensive and I'd like to see a compact version.
     
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