So, Who Regularly Hunts Past 600 Yards...?!?

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Garandimal

Garandimal

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So, who regularly hunts past 600 yards...!?!

A plain ole 22" sporter rifle chambered in .270 WIN - loaded with factory Federal Premium low-tech 150 gr. Nosler Partition (BC=0.465) (SD=0.279) ammo with their mild 2800 fps at the muzzle?

...will still put a 1,000 Lb-Ft of Energy at expanding velocity into your "grazing-grocery" at 600 yards... and only drop 6-1/2' (-78") with a 200 yd. zero getting there.

And that same .270 WIN, loaded with factory Hornady Precision Hunter high-tech 145 gr. ELD-X (BC=0.536) (SD=0.270) ammo with their reasonable 2900 fps at the muzzle, would stretch that 1,000 Lb-Ft of Energy at expanding velocity into that "cut-over culinary" to 740 yards... and only drop 10' (-120") with a 200 yd. zero.


So, it seems to me that if one had a sweet shootin' .270 WIN that they shot well...?

index.php


They would be done.

:D




GR
 
Nobody "hunts" past 600 yards.

Real hunters get closer, and have more respect for game.
Click to expand...

Where do you draw the line. Any shot farther than 50 yards isn't really hunting, but simply shooting. I have the utmost respect for those guys who can stalk within 15-20 yards and kill an animal with traditional archery tackle as well as those hunters who have dedicated themselves to develop the skills to take game at ranges beyond 500 yards. Both are skill sets few of us have.

But the fact is that almost none of us really hunts anymore. Most hunters sit in an elevated stand over a bait pile or food plot and take shots at 50-60 yards. I see no ethical difference between that and someone taking a shot at 500-600 yards, or even farther, if they have the skills and equipment to do it. In fact there is no doubt that there are far more wounded, and un-recovered game animals shot at ranges inside of 100 yards than over 500. The guys who take the 500 yard shots are the ones who actually practice with their gear and know how to use it.

Personally I don't feel confident enough to pull the trigger at 600 on a game animal, at least not yet. I've practiced from field positions as far as 600 and so far I've never shot a round at 600 that wouldn't have been in the kill zone on an elk size game animal. Some would have missed a deer, or been in a non-vital zone. My personal comfort zone for now is about 400 yards. And it doesn't take any special skills or equipment to make that happen. Just some practice. With todays bullets and optics a 400 yard shot shouldn't be hard for anyone willing to spend a little time practicing.
 
Hunting means fair chase; sniping is done at long range. Like others who, previously, and like me, are older AND wiser, 600 yards may not be beyond the capability of the rifle, but it is most certainly beyond the capability of the average long-time hunter.


Interesting that a website http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?pl=[Preset+Name]&presets=30-06+Springfield~30-06+180gr+Sierra+Matchking~G1~0.475~180~2750~100~1.5~0~10~90~~0~59~29.92~50~1~1000~25&df=G1&bc=0.48&bw=150&vi=2800&zr=200&sh=2&sa=0&ws=10&wa=90&ssb=on&cr=1000&ss=25&chartColumns=Range~yd;Elevation~in;Elevation~MOA~FBFFF5;Elevation~MIL;Windage~in;Windage~MOA~FBFFF5;Windage~MIL;Time~s;Energy~ft.lbf;Vel[x+y]~ft/s&lbl=[Chart+Label]&submitst=+Create+Chart+, show a 2800 fps 30-06 150 gr bullet dropping over 6 FEET , not inches, at 600 yards. I can't imagine a 270 will only drop 6 inches
 
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George P said:
but it is most certainly beyond the capability of the average long-time hunter.
Click to expand...
I agree. I also think its beyond the skill, and dedication of 90% of hunters as a whole.

For the guys who truly put in the time, effort, and money to be consistent shots at that range. THEN are willing to choose NOT to shoot should there be any doubt that they are capable of putting the bullet where it needs to go in the situation they are in, I have nothing but admiration and respect.
Ill never be one of those guys, I simply dont have the time, funds, or dedication, to devote to the quest for that level of skill.

I also need to bring food home, and could care less about trophys, so ill take the dummy on the road at 50 paces please....

As an aside, I do hunt with a modern recurve bow. I got heavily addicted to traditional "style" archery (i say that because ive never used a true stick bow), and while i never got as good as some of the guys you see on youtube, 30-40yds was an easy shot, and i took one sheep at over 50.
For someone who didnt shoot 100s of arrows a day that wouldnt be an ethical shot, at the time I was 100 percent confident in both my equipment and my ability to land the arrow where it needed to go.
Now i shoot my bow maybe once every 3 or 4 months, Im still pretty confident at 40yds, but i wouldnt shoot at an animal any farther than 30 without a few weeks of practicing like i used to.
And thats why i bought a heavy, fast, compound with sights....
 
jmr40 said:
A plain ole 22" sporter rifle chambered in .270 WIN - loaded with factory Federal Premium low-tech 150 gr. Nosler Partition (BC=0.465) (SD=0.279) ammo with their mild 2800 fps at the muzzle?

...will still put a 1,000 Lb-Ft of Energy at expanding velocity into your "grazing-grocery" at 600 yards... and only drop 6-1/2' (-78") with a 200 yd. zero getting there.
Click to expand...

Only? :what:

That's the problem with the hunters banging away at long range IMO. When you get out that far, every factor and every error gets amplified. Say you think the deer is at 600 yards - but he's actually at 550 or 650. Even if your left-right on your aim is perfect, even if your scope is perfectly dialed in, even if your field position for shooting is stable, you're probably talking 6 inches or more of error just by that small of a miscalculation - which could either be a miss or a gut shot that causes the animal to run off and die a slow and painful death.

I believe that a hunters' first and foremost responsibility is to score a clean and ethical kill. While it's not impossible to kill game cleanly at 600 yards, but it requires a lot more skill than most would think, and you just inherently increase the risk of a bad shot by adding more and more factors into the mix as the range increases. A lot of shooters could put their 12 pound bipoded rifles with 20x scopes onto a flat, level shooting range bench, dial in the drop for the exact 600 yard range the paper or gong is at, read the windage flag conveniently left beside their target, and put a shot into a vitals-sized target, but doing that in the field gets more tricky. Your average Joe-blow hunter in the woods has no business pulling the trigger at that kind of range, even if their rifle and bullet are capable of making the shot.

Again - it's not about going all Chris Kyle on deer, it's not about blasting at the smallest sign of an animal like some of the buck fever guys do, it's about making a clean kill on game.

Honestly, I feel like 300 yards is about the maximum range hunters should be shooting, unless they know what they're doing. All of your 30-06'ish calibers will shoot basically point-blank out to 300 yards with minimal need to factor in drop, ranges are too short for any of the long range gremlins like wind, mirage, etc to factor in, the bullets are still carrying tons of energy, and a 1-2 MOA bolt action is good enough to make a vital-sized shot with plenty of margin for error. Start pushing it to 400 yards or past and some of those stop being such a sure thing.
 
Bullet flight time to 600 yards is in the neighborhood of 0.75 seconds. Human visual reaction time is about 0.2 seconds.

That means the bullet arrives at 600 yards about a second after the shot looked perfect in the scope.
 
Patocazador said:
Most of my shots are well under 200 yards. Out west you have lots of open ares with no trees so you would have more long-range opportunities but you also have much more wind so it's still not a good idea if you give a darn about the animal.
Click to expand...
Wind is an issue here pretty offten. I stopped and chatted with a guy id seen a few times before glassing a heard of sheep at something over 400. He had been watching them for over an hour waiting for a lull in the wind to shoot. I drove away after sitting there for almost another hour and he never felt comfortable with the wind conditions to make the shot even tho the shot wasnt really that far.
 
RugerOldArmy said:
Nobody "hunts" past 600 yards.

Real hunters get closer, and have more respect for game.
Click to expand...
In the eyes of the beholder. Someone else may say that a shot at the same animal at 20 yards is unethical "because anyone can make that shot". Someone else may say that using anything besides a home-made bow and arrows is cheating. Most hunters have no business shooting past 100 yards- I have seen the results in the field and on the range.

George P said:
Hunting means fair chase; sniping is done at long range. Like others who, previously, and like me, are older AND wiser, 600 yards may not be beyond the capability of the rifle, but it is most certainly beyond the capability of the average long-time hunter.


Interesting that a website http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?pl=[Preset+Name]&presets=30-06+Springfield~30-06+180gr+Sierra+Matchking~G1~0.475~180~2750~100~1.5~0~10~90~~0~59~29.92~50~1~1000~25&df=G1&bc=0.48&bw=150&vi=2800&zr=200&sh=2&sa=0&ws=10&wa=90&ssb=on&cr=1000&ss=25&chartColumns=Range~yd;Elevation~in;Elevation~MOA~FBFFF5;Elevation~MIL;Windage~in;Windage~MOA~FBFFF5;Windage~MIL;Time~s;Energy~ft.lbf;Vel[x+y]~ft/s&lbl=[Chart+Label]&submitst=+Create+Chart+, show a 2800 fps 30-06 150 gr bullet dropping over 6 FEET , not inches, at 600 yards. I can't imagine a 270 will only drop 6 inches
Click to expand...
Know your limitations. I regularly shoot 8" gongs at 600 and beyond with 308. All Marines qualify out to 500 yards with M16A2 rifles with iron sights, so it is well within the capability of a decent rifle with more power and a shooter who has practiced and done his or her homework to make such a shot. I shoot at ranges beyond 400 yards weekly, with both 223 and 308. I do this because I am not satisfied with being average. I haven't taken a shot at a deer past 200, only because the opportunity never presented itself. But I would.
 
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guys, I agree that shooting that far requires finely honed skills and practice. but, it's very hypocritical to down talk people who are capable of this shot. and, wind reading is the biggest factor in doing so. that said, I routinely compete in 600 & 1000yd fclass matches, as well as prs competition from 100-1200yds. also shoot my competition. 22lr @ 50-300yds. so I have the skill to do this and have in the past. I have taken deer from 17-875yds with archery and rifle, 1 shot kills. but, I have the practice and equipment to do it ethically, Imho, and wouldn't have taken any of those shots if I wasn't totally comfortable with all the attributed factors. In the right conditions, why not. i too get in as close as i think the deer will move, but have seen time and time again that you can't determine where they will move going to and from. so I'm prepared either way.
 
Patocazador said:
Most of my shots are well under 200 yards. Out west you have lots of open ares with no trees so you would have more long-range opportunities but you also have much more wind so it's still not a good idea if you give a darn about the animal.
Click to expand...
There is also the option of learning how to judge wind and make the necessary corrections.

It comes down to knowing your equipment and your limitations. I consider myself a somewhat proficient shooter, but if I'm carrying my rattle-trap 30-30 "truck rifle" with the 4x simmons scope, I'm not going to even think about taking shots that I would take without hesitation with my Larue OBR 308.
 
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FL-NC said:
There is also the option of learning how to judge wind and make the necessary corrections.
Click to expand...
Im still working on that, even at 400ish im not confident enough to shoot some days. Sudden gust from a weird direction arnt really unusual here either, not sure how it is on most of the mainland.
 
I'm lucky to get a 60 yard shot in the woods I hunt now days. Last year it was about 25 yards, shot with a .223 from an M4.

Now, in the past, I've always limited shots, even in the western mountains and desert where you can see forever, to max 400 yards and THAT'S with perfect conditions, no up or down hill, little wind. Now, were I still hunting out there, I'd buy me one of those newer range finders that compensate for up or down hill deflections. But, I'd still limit myself to 400 yards and I'll bet my 7mm Rem Mag (1 MOA accurate) has plenty more left than that .270 after whatever yardage. I shoot a 150 game king in it with a BC of .535 at 3200 fps at the muzzle.

Haven't hunted with that 7 in years, though. No need to around here. I usually use my ,308. Last year I just wanted to try the M4 with a Barnes handload. I've been shooting pigs lately with a 7.62x39. It works fine, too.
 
If you watch the YouTube videos that are driving this type of thing, a lot of times the kill shot is the second or third attempt. How many times do they injure the animal and not show it?
It is about killing the game as humanely as possible. If I can get closer I will. If not, I decide based on what my respiratory and heart rate is. If I just climbed a ravine 100 yds may be too far. My personal max was 435 yds. It was just outside my normal limit, but I had a steady rest and it felt right. My worst was a miss at 35 yds. Range isn't the problem, not knowing when you should pass on the shot is.
 
Unfortunately, the practice of "hunting" game seems less enticing to many today while the practice of "sniping" game at long range seems to be increasing in popularity and acceptance. To me there is a big difference between being a game sniper and a hunter. For hunters the quick and clean harvesting of the game is the highest priority. The closer the range the more likely the hunter will have of a clean, humane kill... For game snipers part of the goal is how far away he can make the shot and this goal is in direct opposition to the hunters goal as it's very nature lessens the likelihood of a clean humane kill.

I'm in the camp that considers most shots beyond about 400 yards to be unethical. The variables start to increase exponentially beyond this distance and what started out as "hunting" becomes more of a "stunt". I also think it's unethical for any hunter to shoot further than his skill set whether that is 40 yards or 400.

In fact there is no doubt that there are far more wounded, and un-recovered game animals shot at ranges inside of 100 yards than over 500.
Click to expand...
As a total number sure because far more game is shot at close range than at long range but not as a percentage of shots taken.....No way... Far more animals are wounded and un-recovered on a shot by shot basis at long range than short range.... and that makes the long range shot less ethical...
 
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And then, besides wind, you also need to factor in varying terrain where the animal might be 500-1000 feet higher or lower than you in elevation and also moving, even slowly, as it grazes. A WHOLE lot different than shooting paper or a gong at a known distance on flat ground.

If you can do all that, good for you! There aren't too many who could or SHOULD attempt that shot. Just because the rifle might be capable doesn't always mean the shooter is.
 
Mosin Bubba said:
Only? :what:

That's the problem with the hunters banging away at long range IMO. When you get out that far, every factor and every error gets amplified. Say you think the deer is at 600 yards - but he's actually at 550 or 650. Even if your left-right on your aim is perfect, even if your scope is perfectly dialed in, even if your field position for shooting is stable, you're probably talking 6 inches or more of error just by that small of a miscalculation - which could either be a miss or a gut shot that causes the animal to run off and die a slow and painful death.

I believe that a hunters' first and foremost responsibility is to score a clean and ethical kill. While it's not impossible to kill game cleanly at 600 yards, but it requires a lot more skill than most would think, and you just inherently increase the risk of a bad shot by adding more and more factors into the mix as the range increases. A lot of shooters could put their 12 pound bipoded rifles with 20x scopes onto a flat, level shooting range bench, dial in the drop for the exact 600 yard range the paper or gong is at, read the windage flag conveniently left beside their target, and put a shot into a vitals-sized target, but doing that in the field gets more tricky. Your average Joe-blow hunter in the woods has no business pulling the trigger at that kind of range, even if their rifle and bullet are capable of making the shot.

Again - it's not about going all Chris Kyle on deer, it's not about blasting at the smallest sign of an animal like some of the buck fever guys do, it's about making a clean kill on game.

Honestly, I feel like 300 yards is about the maximum range hunters should be shooting, unless they know what they're doing. All of your 30-06'ish calibers will shoot basically point-blank out to 300 yards with minimal need to factor in drop, ranges are too short for any of the long range gremlins like wind, mirage, etc to factor in, the bullets are still carrying tons of energy, and a 1-2 MOA bolt action is good enough to make a vital-sized shot with plenty of margin for error. Start pushing it to 400 yards or past and some of those stop being such a sure thing.
Click to expand...

This is where I am as well.

Have some property lines and a few pipeline cuts where I've set up a stand and marked the trees along the other side out to 600 yards, at 100' intervals with a color change at the 100 yard marks. But banging away with the M1 Garand or the scoped M700 .270 WIN off-Season is different than hunting, especially in fading light conditions.

I generally still hunt, as creeping through the woods or hikin' the hills is a big part of why I'm out there in the first place (unless it's a big wknd, in which case it's almost suicidal). On occasion, sight-lines have presented some longer, "iffy" shots, but even then 400 yards is a very long way to shoot from field positions. Usually a little light b/t the crosshair and the top of the back will result in a solid hit, and if the range is fugged, a clean miss.


GR
 
as a point of reference, i posted this 3 years ago...

the shoot for the green PRS match in Oklahoma this past weekend had an interesting stage. Four plywood deer silhouettes were positioned at different distances with an 8" circle cut out and a steel gong hung in it, representing the vital zone. Shooters had to start with the closest deer and get two hits on it before progressing to the next farthest one. Max round count was 10 rounds.

Of course, it's not a laboratory "scientific" test, but it's certainly interesting data. imho It's quite a bit easier than an actual hunt because the deer didn't move. The ranges were known. It was shot from a very stable prone position with no grass or other interference. The deer were perfectly broadside. AND you had several dozen very good shooters sharing wind calls with each other and adjusting their plans based on watching the impacts as others shot the course.

Over the day, most shooters were holding between 5-10mph wind on this stage, which is pretty dang calm for western oklahoma

The results? out of 87 shooters

17% couldn't even get 2 hits on an 8" vitals area at 425 yards with 10 tries
32% got 2 hits at 425 yards, but couldn't get 2 hits at 574 yards
44% got 2 hits at 425 and 574, but couldn't get 2 hits at 754 yards
7% got 2 hits at 425, 574 and 754, but weren't able to get 2 hits at 942 yards
0% got 2 hits on all 4 deer

Put another way,
83% hit the 425 yard deer (even though some may have taken all 10 rounds to get their 2 hits)
51% hit the 574 yard deer
7% hit the 754 yard deer
nobody hit all 4

Equally interesting, only ONE shooter in that 7% was in the top 15. i.e. the match winner only hit 2 deer. Of the 14 guys behind him, only one got 3 deer. So it isn't really the case that we should be confident that these are high percentage targets for the "best shooters"

Also, I know several shooters did take a shot at nearby rocks to get a wind call before engaging the deer targets, since you couldn't see misses on the plywood at that distance. So that strategy is factored into the results.

overall, i shot poorly, but i did get 2 hits on 3 deer but missed the 942 yard deer.
Click to expand...
 
As noted, it really hinges on semantics: What does "hunting" mean. At 600 yards, you are looking at 9 times the area for a given angle of view that you are at 200 yards. I submit that I will scan for game at out to 600 hundred yards and that I consider that scanning as an essential part of hunting. In fact, it is the part of hunting that I consider the most rewarding. However, once the hunting for the potential quarry has been completed, the hunting of the quarry begins. This is the part of the hunt where you have to put yourself in a position to make an ethical shot: One that is within your limitations as a marksman and within the limitations of the rifle. In my experience, the marksman is liable to be the biggest limiting factor.
 
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