So you want a cap and ball revolver?
- Thread starter Gatofeo
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Perk
Member
Macmac - Not a bit of harm done. Thanks, the same.
Carl N. Brown
Member
Gatofeo wrote a good, brief but detailed intro to cap'n'ball.
Brass frames do not holdup to long years of shooting like
steel framed revolvers, but often during the American Civil
War it was easier for the REbels to make brass frame revolvers
as opposed to iron or steel frame, so brass frame revolvers
do have a rebel panache.
Lubed felt wads over powder under the ball eventually
contaminate the powder with lube the longer they sit.
I went back to crisco+beeswax lube over the ball after
seating it on the powder.
Brass frames do not holdup to long years of shooting like
steel framed revolvers, but often during the American Civil
War it was easier for the REbels to make brass frame revolvers
as opposed to iron or steel frame, so brass frame revolvers
do have a rebel panache.
Lubed felt wads over powder under the ball eventually
contaminate the powder with lube the longer they sit.
I went back to crisco+beeswax lube over the ball after
seating it on the powder.
barnetmill
Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2006
- Messages
- 1,264
Gatofeo stated: " ....you may find rust on it the day after firing, because of the salts or perchlorates in the propellant. ....."
Are there perchlorates in blackpower propellants or priming? I do know potasium chlorates were used by the military in primers to ignite smokeless power loads at one time. I thought black powder was made from charcoal (Carbon), saltpeter (potassium nitrate), and sulfur. Do the caps contain perclorates?
Are there perchlorates in blackpower propellants or priming? I do know potasium chlorates were used by the military in primers to ignite smokeless power loads at one time. I thought black powder was made from charcoal (Carbon), saltpeter (potassium nitrate), and sulfur. Do the caps contain perclorates?
Mausermike
Member
I don't think so. Looking at the MSDS sheet for modern Remington percussion caps, they are based on shock sensitive compounds lead styphnate and tetrazene. Also listed is barium, possibly as the nitrate? Also anitmony, as the sulfide?
In the past, mercury fulminate was used as the shock sensitive material.
As stated, the oxidant in black powder is saltpeter, aka potassium nitrate.
In the past, mercury fulminate was used as the shock sensitive material.
As stated, the oxidant in black powder is saltpeter, aka potassium nitrate.
Lovesbeer99
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- Sep 27, 2006
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Ping - I just wanted a record so I could search this in the future.
theblackmeow
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- Feb 19, 2008
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BP Revolver Issues
I was given 2 BP revolvers about a year ago. One is a Pietta '51 Navy repro done in .44 ca; the other is an Uberti '51 Navy in the proper .36 ca. On the Pietta, the action of the cylinder is far more loose than the Uberti. The Uberti seems to be a tighter firearm re the moving parts. Both have busted the trigger bolt/sear spring very quickly. The Pietta just had the mainspring break. I've probably shot less than 500 rounds through the Pietta; about 300 thru the Uberti. The Pietta is brass frame; the Uberti is case hardened steel. The Pietta has slightly oversize grip & cylinder. I need to know what I can do (within $$$ reason) to rectify the breaking spring situation. I would like my pistols to be more reliable and sturdier if possible. I use about 20 grains of BP for the .44 load and 15-17 g for the .36. Is there someplace I can get replacement springs made of high quality material or wire to use instead of the regular ones? Also, when I load, I usually just pour the powder in (spigot is proper size on the flask per ea firearm), ram the ball in till it is properly seated & wipe a glob of Crisco or other natural lube to seal the mouth against gas leakage. Seems to work OK. Is there a real reason to use those round pre-cut wads to separate powder & ball? Any/all advice is appreciated. Also, if anyone has a Ruger Old Army that they have tired of & want to sell cheap (sorry, I'm poor!) I would be a very happy camper. I have a Traditions .50 Pennsylvania rifle that cost over $500 new if anyone has the need. It's in very good condition, has been used fairly often & shoots straight as I could wish. Have some gear (stick props, tools, etc) to go with. Looking to swap for a lever action .44-40, period correct repro. I don't have a repeater & want one. Thanx,
the black meow
I was given 2 BP revolvers about a year ago. One is a Pietta '51 Navy repro done in .44 ca; the other is an Uberti '51 Navy in the proper .36 ca. On the Pietta, the action of the cylinder is far more loose than the Uberti. The Uberti seems to be a tighter firearm re the moving parts. Both have busted the trigger bolt/sear spring very quickly. The Pietta just had the mainspring break. I've probably shot less than 500 rounds through the Pietta; about 300 thru the Uberti. The Pietta is brass frame; the Uberti is case hardened steel. The Pietta has slightly oversize grip & cylinder. I need to know what I can do (within $$$ reason) to rectify the breaking spring situation. I would like my pistols to be more reliable and sturdier if possible. I use about 20 grains of BP for the .44 load and 15-17 g for the .36. Is there someplace I can get replacement springs made of high quality material or wire to use instead of the regular ones? Also, when I load, I usually just pour the powder in (spigot is proper size on the flask per ea firearm), ram the ball in till it is properly seated & wipe a glob of Crisco or other natural lube to seal the mouth against gas leakage. Seems to work OK. Is there a real reason to use those round pre-cut wads to separate powder & ball? Any/all advice is appreciated. Also, if anyone has a Ruger Old Army that they have tired of & want to sell cheap (sorry, I'm poor!) I would be a very happy camper. I have a Traditions .50 Pennsylvania rifle that cost over $500 new if anyone has the need. It's in very good condition, has been used fairly often & shoots straight as I could wish. Have some gear (stick props, tools, etc) to go with. Looking to swap for a lever action .44-40, period correct repro. I don't have a repeater & want one. Thanx,
the black meow
theblackmeow -
It would be more productive if you would start your own thread or topic rather than adding messages on to other people's subjects. That way we would see right up front that you want information on a particular subject, rather than discovering it buried under some other subject. It also keeps the threads from wandering off subject, a practice known as 'hijacking' the thread.
You will find a new topic posted under the subject, "Problems with Pietta 1851 brass Navy .44) in which some of your questions are answered. I notice that you have several other questions here as well. If you'd repost this message as a new topic I'll try to answer those as well.
It would be more productive if you would start your own thread or topic rather than adding messages on to other people's subjects. That way we would see right up front that you want information on a particular subject, rather than discovering it buried under some other subject. It also keeps the threads from wandering off subject, a practice known as 'hijacking' the thread.
You will find a new topic posted under the subject, "Problems with Pietta 1851 brass Navy .44) in which some of your questions are answered. I notice that you have several other questions here as well. If you'd repost this message as a new topic I'll try to answer those as well.
johnnyh
Member
A quick thanks
Wow, this is quite a bit of info. Since I am at work right now, I will have to read it tonight at home. You really put some work into this. I use to have an 1851 Navy Colt (.44) about 20 years ago. I traded it for some work a guy did for me. I just last night, order another from Cabelas. I remember they are fun to shoot and I will print off your info, if that is ok with you, and will keep it close by.
The one I ordered was with the brass on it. I know that you said in one section that it was not the best, but since I have ordered it already, do you have any advice on that?
Again, I appreciate your knowledge on this subject.
Wow, this is quite a bit of info. Since I am at work right now, I will have to read it tonight at home. You really put some work into this. I use to have an 1851 Navy Colt (.44) about 20 years ago. I traded it for some work a guy did for me. I just last night, order another from Cabelas. I remember they are fun to shoot and I will print off your info, if that is ok with you, and will keep it close by.
The one I ordered was with the brass on it. I know that you said in one section that it was not the best, but since I have ordered it already, do you have any advice on that?
Again, I appreciate your knowledge on this subject.
arcticap
Member
AdmiralB
Member
I got a Cimarron/Uberti London Navy for Christmas; today was the first day I got a chance to take it to the range, and it shoots beautifully with .375s. The cylinders measure .373, and it does shave a ring upon seating.
I'm going to go back to .454s for my .44s (whose chambers measure .451) too. Easier loading, no observed performance penalty.
OP
OP
Gatofeo
Member
Johnnyh:
The only advice I can offer with brass frames is to avoid the temptation to "Magnumize" it with stout loads.
In the .36-caliber, this means a maximum of about 20 grains of powder. In the .44, consider 30 grains as maximum.
This will lessen strain on the revolver and keep it operating longer.
Brass-framed revolvers can be accurate but they cannot take the same pressures as steel-framed guns and shrug it off. The higher pressure loads are harder on them than on steel-framed guns.
Stick to mild loads and your revolver will last a long time.
The only advice I can offer with brass frames is to avoid the temptation to "Magnumize" it with stout loads.
In the .36-caliber, this means a maximum of about 20 grains of powder. In the .44, consider 30 grains as maximum.
This will lessen strain on the revolver and keep it operating longer.
Brass-framed revolvers can be accurate but they cannot take the same pressures as steel-framed guns and shrug it off. The higher pressure loads are harder on them than on steel-framed guns.
Stick to mild loads and your revolver will last a long time.
theotherwaldo
Member
I bought my '58 Remington in the summer of '73. If it had been brass-framed, I doubt that it would still be around.
Don't save pennies and waste dollars. Get the steel frame.
Don't save pennies and waste dollars. Get the steel frame.
madcratebuilder
Member
I'm even more conservative with brass frame loads. I have a 35 year old Uberti brass frame 1862 Confederate Griswold & Gunnison clone. I shoot 15-18gr loads and the revolver is still tight with no indentation on the recoil shield. The same with a .36 Spiller & Burr clone.
I just bought Cabela's brass frame Colt in .44. I put some 22 and 25gr loads through it, good shooter. I sure would not go over 26-28gr.
Brass or steel frame, if you abuse them, they well let you know.
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