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Some long overdue common sense for firearm owners.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by wacki, Dec 19, 2006.

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  1. wacki

    wacki Member

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    EDIT: ok I agree this is a poorly worded title. This is not exactly about common sense but information that's not exactly well organized.

    I've seen a ton of news stories of firearm mistakes posted on this forum. The Mexican carry guy that shot himself twice. The bad holster in the backpack that paralyzed a woman. There is no excuse for that. And I know I've seen a lot of people mishandle firearms. Heck last week somebody I barely knew handed me a gun without informing me that the magazine was full or checking to see if I knew proper firearm safety. Many of these incidents could easily be avoided if people were simply better informed. A safety pamphlet/CD was handed out with each firearm might be better. A CD/book would certainly be a far more cost effective way of distributing the information and it would certainly remove any privacy concerns. Everyone here seems to insist on taking a self defense class anyway.

    Why doesn't anyone push the most common sense form gun control of all? I mean I see no reason why some gun safety CD shouldn't be attached to each firearm sold. The NRA and gun companies should be doing this on a voluntary basis anyway. They can even use it as an easy way to slip in some gun facts to fight the misinformation campaign by anti's. And for every accident we avoid, that just makes us look that much better.

    Cold Steel sends me free DVD's to show off their knives. So the gun companies should have no problems doing it. Heck gun companies can spend 1/2 of the DVD talking up their company and the other 1/2 of the DVD as part of a standardized NRA/THR sponsored safety/anti-anti course. That would save on costs for sure. I mean gun companies hand out catalogs anyway. Money is not the issue.

    A lot of gun owners don't know proper gun safety. And almost all gun owners don't understand how badly the gun control advocates skew the statistics. I certainly didn't before I came here. It's time to fix that.

    EDIT II: not talking legislation. Just a volunteer "get the information out" project.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2006
  2. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    Thanks for advocating gun control.


    :barf:
     
  3. ChefJeff1

    ChefJeff1 Member

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    Good idea. A buddy of mine came by the other night to show me his new and first postil. When he was done waving it around he handed it to me with out showing me that it was unloaded and it had a loaded mag. I scolded him and said you hand a pistol to me with the slide locked back and mag dropped.
     
  4. gulogulo1970

    gulogulo1970 Member

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    Good idea, but most new guns I've ever bought have the four rules and gun safety included within the manual. If you are not going to read the book you probably will chunk the cd like it was from AOL.
     
  5. wacki

    wacki Member

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    Did you understand anything I said? Apparently not. This is not a law. Information is on our side and we are missing a very effective method of spreading information to the right people. I mean a version of this PDF could be attached to the DVD:

    http://www.gunfacts.info/

    That would be a very powerful method of fighting gun control. More people will get the information if it's in video format though.
     
  6. Bentonville

    Bentonville Member

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    I have taught all three of my sons how to drive. I did it carefully and with great patience and lots of opportunities to get behind the wheel. I taught how to check the fluids and air pressure in the tires. One gets behind the wheel and drives like there is no tomorrow with no thought about fluids. In fact, I just replaced the engine of our little Civic because the temp. gauge showed hot but he didn't notice until the steam poured out from under the hood and the aluminum block had warped. The other is sensible and keeps his oil changed. My third is a work in progress. Same with firearms. No matter how much training a person gets, a fool is a fool. It won't hurt to give pamphlets or training CD's with the gun locks. It's not really gun control, is it?
     
  7. wacki

    wacki Member

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  8. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

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    Instructional Video

    I'd be entirely okay with an instructional video on CD or DVD.

    You buy your new rifle or pistol.

    You get home, and in the box with it is a disk that has on it
    1) the manual for that piece, with parts list, in PDF,
    2) the company's catalog in PDF,
    3) a video demonstrating proper shooting technique, prefaced by THE 4 RULES,
    4) a video demonstrating proper cleaning and maintenance, including any adjustments, and THE 4 RULES,
    5) for hunters, advice on field dressing the various things one hunts,
    6) the addresses and phone numbers for those outfits that do professional training.​

    This would, in fact, be a serious marketing tool.

    Alternatively, if it's not packaged with the weapon itself, it should be sent to the customer in response to receiving the warranty paperwork.

    And, failing that, it should at least be something you can order for $10 from the manufacturer.

    A DVD can hold an indecent amount of material, so a single DVD could have the info for several different weapons types.

    I'd pay money for that.
     
  9. wacki

    wacki Member

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    ArfinGreebly,

    Are you aware that buckets kill more children under 5 each year than firearms? Are you aware that swimming pools are 100 time more dangerous than accidental shootings? Don't you think this kind of info would be important to add on the DVD? Lets not forget what the NRA and other organizations have to say. I mean there is so much that could be done it's not even funny. Also, $10 is way too high. The major companies should come to a gentlemens agreement and just increase their cost by 20 cents and slap on the DVD. It's good for business.
     
  10. Mannlicher

    Mannlicher Member

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    Wacki, if you have to TELL folks what common sense is, they won't understand it. Trust me on this.
     
  11. wacki

    wacki Member

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    Responses like this make me angry. Reading news stories about the dangers of Mexican carry certainly raised my awareness. The dangers of a cheap holsters did as well. Lets not forget this:

    http://www.gunfacts.info/

    But if 100 pages of statistics and lab results are common sense then you are a much better man than I. I guess all of the moderators that strongly recommend self defense courses are just stupid morons too.
     
  12. Gbro

    Gbro Member

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    Cheffjeff,
    you scolded the wrong one.
    You should have scolded yourself. We don't alow anyone to wave any kind of firearm around, EVER.
    We never accept a firearm from another without it first being opened, With the exception of someone who, it is obviouse dosn't know JACK @#%@ about what they are doing.
    The other poster is right. Safety information accompanys all new guns and information on the safe use of many guns is avalible through the manufactures. Most of them have it avalible on the web.
    Furthermore, if your firearms is dated to some exstent. it is a good idea to obtain a current owners manual for that model. Example, the RUGER SINGLE SIX. The owners manual that came with this pistol is only about 6 pages of information, It dosn't even exsplane how or when to "decock" that gun, it is just taken for granted that one would know how,or, Shoot it. The current manual is about 20 pages. Granted most of the info is corvering the ass of the manufacture, but still has a lot of merit.

    What it comes down to is, Attitude, If someone has the right attitude about Gun safety, he will study and take every class avalible to expand his knowedge.
    Also there is a web site www.biggerhammer.net that has a great library of owners manuals for guns, many that are no longer made. Check it out.

    Gbro
     
  13. wacki

    wacki Member

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    No, what it comes down to is what the average person will do. And the average person will not spend countless hours on THR learning about guns. Make the information cheap. Make it concise. And make it easy to access. Anything less is not the wisest of decisions IMO.

    And no I don't consider online PDF's to be easy. Nobody reads the instructions anyway. Lots of people have watched my cold steel DVD's though.
     
  14. MrDig

    MrDig Member

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    Read my Signature

    unfortunately it applies
     
  15. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    Nice thought, but even if you could make something idiot proof they would just go out and build a better idiot.
     
  16. bthest86

    bthest86 Member

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    Ever gun I've bought comes with basic saftey rules. If someone doesn't read the manual then what makes you think they'll take the time to instal that CD?

    The High School I went to taught proper firearm handling and the 4 rules as part of health class. Maybe such classes should be mandatory in all schools.
     
  17. pcosmar

    pcosmar member

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    They put signs under the hood of cars that say,"don't atempt to change fan belt with the engine running." :what:
    I think education should start early, right after potty training. Though some may never be helped. Some people just have to stick there fingers in the fan.

    I learned young, and have never touched a weapon that I did not check myself, immediately.
     
  18. jeepmor

    jeepmor Member

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    Common sense is YOUR responsibility

    And you checked it yourself right, to confirm it? Once the gun is in your hands, it is your duty to check it, don't blame your friend, blame yourself. If the gun goes off in your hands, the negligence is also squarely on your shoulders.

    Ever read the owners manual? It's all there. ALL mfr's have their owners manuals online for easy download.

    The four rules are enough, if you don't follow them, that's your fault, not ours. Common sense tells me that the government wants my guns out of my hands so they can more easily control me, any gun control is violation of the US constitution, but they vote it in anyway.

    Correction - a lot of gun owners don't PRACTICE proper gun safety.

    A quick google will show you that it's out there ALREADY, and it's FREE. Quit thinking a DVD or CD is going to magically make people safe and quit putting so much damn plastic in the landfill. Paper is recyclable, .pdf files are deleteable without any solid waste left behind.

    It's ALL out there, go look for it and quit asking someone else to do it for you....sheesh. Leave that to the whiny, emotionally motivated, liberals and take some accountability for your own safety and role model for others. Like the people trying to ban the .50 caliber because it's a cannon and can shoot down planes. Do they provide any statistics to support how this gun has been used by ne'erdowells?

    No, they are simply afraid of it because it's incredibly powerful, nothing more. It's like telling someone not to drive a sports car when it's really none of your damn business. If they can afford the payments, fuel and insurance, it's no business of yours or mine to tell them otherwise. It's simply not.

    Here at my employer we have a mantra for this. See a problem, own a problem. Simple statement, but very powerful.

    Is it just me, or does it seem that the people asking for common sense gun control are the same people who are lacking it themselves; and simply looking for someone to spoon feed them so they don't have to exert any effort on their own?

    Do you really trust the government so much that you think they won't completely FUBAR it like damn near everything else they touch?


    jeepmor
     
  19. rbernie
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    rbernie Member

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    Ruger prints their address and an offer for a free manual on the side of every barrel they churn out, and yet it does little good other than provide an additional element to a corporate liability shield.

    Wacki - it's a noble idea. It's really nice. But it won't likely have much impact because those that won't read the free lit that is currently available aren't likely to read it in PDF (or any other distribution) format.

    You want to effect a change in this sort of thing? Volunteer to go into your local elementary schools and give an Eddie Eagle seminar. Do it often. Preach to those who are (by virtue of their age) still willing to listen.

    But don't think that you can educate those who simply can't be bothered to read and think.
     
  20. wacki

    wacki Member

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    My gun didn't come with any safety facts regarding mexican carry or having a good holster. It didn't come with a link to gunfact.info. It didn't come with a bunch of statistics.

    Well in all honestly video reaches far more people than PDF. The fact that the American populace and mass media tends to be rather clueless when it comes to stuff that was considered settled within the scientific community decades ago should make this evident. Sorry, but people are far more likely to watch the discovery channel, the history channel, etc than read a book. It's not about stupidity. It's about the amount of effort required. And a video requires almost zero effort.

    Check my signature. My blog is only a week old but it should be pretty clear this is not about me.

    In all honesty threads like this make me think guns deserve to be banned. There is a lot of resistance in this thread to educating the public. I wonder how many insults this guy:

    http://www.gunfacts.info/

    had when he decided to start on his pdf. I wonder how many insults penn & teller had when they decided to work on their video about gun control. Those two forms of information are a really good start but they certainly could be improved upon. In all honesty this kind of resistance to informing the public makes me sick.

    I mean it took me over 600 posts on various gun forums before I found out about this:

    http://www.gunfacts.info/

    That's not right. I read a lot about gun statistics and there is a lot of really good information that simply isn't organized and disseminated very well. Way too many people in this forum want it to stay that way.
     
  21. Fly320s

    Fly320s Member

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    As long as the CD/DVD is not mandated by law, I see no reason to oppose the idea. It is a good marketing idea after all.

    In fact, I like the idea. Some people who buy guns are gun nuts, like me. And yes, I do read the manual that came with my new gun. I would very much like to have a CD or DVD with extra information about my new gun, it's parts, it's care and feeding, tips and tricks, and printable coupons towards future purchases. In fact, I'm one of those guys who actually orders the manufacturer's new catalogs.

    Granted, many people, if not most people, will not read the manual. Nor will they seek more information or training on guns. There's not much we can do about those people.

    Maybe the cost to produce and distribute a relatively small numder of CDs is too high. Or maybe not enough people have access to a CD/DVD player. Either way, a paper manual will need to be included with the gun. But if the NRA were to produce such a CD and distribute it freely to every manufacturer or dealer who wanted it, on the condition that the CDs must be distributed with the purchase of a firearm, then I think the plan could work. The buyer could get the knowledge if he chooses, and the NRA could get more members.

    No harm in trying.
     
  22. orionengnr

    orionengnr Member

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    I have to ask how long you have been around firearms. EVERY new gun comes with a NAUSEATINGLY complete owners manual. SAFETY is discussed for pages upon pages, always IN RED TEXT and usually in BOLD text and sometimes in italics.

    How many people actually read it? Not many, from the posts here. I know for a fact that Ruger offers owner's manuals as a .pdf download, and others likely do the same.

    Cheap? Easy to access? Yup.

    Maybe we should pass a law that says [sarcasm]that every buyer must read and understand the owner's manual... [/sarcasm] Yeah, that will work... :)

    Hey, my four Paras each came with a VHS tape instead of a printed manual. When I sold each, it went with a VHS tape....still in the wrapper. :rolleyes:

    You cannot legislate common sense, or common decency, or manners, or much of anything. We have (as a society) been vacillating between legislating "morality" on the individual level (think WOSD, smoking) and blaming society for everything, thereby abdicating any personal responsibility for misdeeds (example too numerous to mention)... :barf:
     
  23. Molon Labe

    Molon Labe Member

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    So what?

    When someone hands you a gun, it doesn't matter what condition the gun is in. Why? Two reasons:

    1. You should always handle a firearm as if it were loaded.

    2. Whenever someone hands you a firearm, you should immediately check the chamber and determine its condition.

    When I teach my students about firearm safety, I tell them, "If someone hands you a firearm, never ask if the gun or magazine is loaded. It is a dumb question. Why? Because it's irrelevant. Whenever someone hands you a firearm, you should assume it's loaded, and then immediately check the chamber and determine its condition."
     
  24. wacki

    wacki Member

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    Molon Labe said:
    Are you saying we should assume that every person we hand a gun to knows exactly how to handle a gun? Are you saying there is no need to ask them whether or not they know firearm safety when we give them a loaded weapon?

    It certainly appears that way.

    :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:
     
  25. wacki

    wacki Member

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    orionengnr said:

    :scrutiny:

    I agree.
     
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