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Some people do not belong on the range

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Mr.Revolverguy, Jan 20, 2008.

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  1. Mr.Revolverguy

    Mr.Revolverguy Member

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    As much as I promote gun ownership and protection of the 2nd, some people just do not belong on the range. So today at the club (indoor range very nice with awesome ventilation) this guy walks in with his firearms and ammunition. He is shooting a 300winmag, a 357 lead bullets, and I think it was a 41 or 44 magnum taurus with lead bullets. Sounds good so far right well I turn around and this guy is eating a hamburger and drinking coffee in between reloads. So I say he seems like a nice guy. I walk over and say he man how are ya. We introduce ourselves and I decide well just go back to shooting so I go back to my lane. Well after 10 minutes of watching this guy load up his magazines and taking bites of this burger and drinking this coffee I walk over and say hey you should really be careful. I would not eat or drink out here. I know there is no smoke in the air but I am sure there is plenty of lead particles in the air and possibly on your hands. This dude turns to me and says you know you should really mind your own business. I then apologized and walked back over to my area shaking my head. I guess the range officer must have finally seen this from the booth because we have cameras on the range and he came out and told the guy no food or drinks allowed there is a sign right before you walk in. He actually gets pissed packs up his stuff walks out slams the door goes up to the cash register and asked for his money back and the club refused, honestly which I was very proud of because he had been there for 30 minutes already, and non members pay advanced by the hour which is $14.95. So after I am done the range officer and I are talking about this and mentioned he never seen these guys before. I walk out the door and there he is standing with another guy next to his dodge ram dually. I decided it was best to go back into the club and avoid a confrontation. I told the range officer what the deal was and told him as I turned around I heard the one guy mention something to the fact that yeah that's him right there. We called some friends of mine (local law enforcement) and they responded very quick like with 3 cars and told the gentlemen they had to leave. Even though I had a loaded glock 30 on my hip concealed and a S&W 642 in my inside jacket pocket I know I made the right decision. I had a safe alternative and will op for that one every time. It is just sad for me though knowing that some politicians will classify all of us in the same category as these guys and think all gun owners are like this.

    Just had to share this with someone, sort of bummed out by it.
     
  2. lanternlad1

    lanternlad1 Member

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    Guns can make people stupid. Some people get a gun and stop using their brain. This guy seems to be one of those. I think you handled it correctly.
     
  3. Regolith

    Regolith Member

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    Nope. Guns don't make anyone anything. They're inanimate objects.

    Some people are born stupid, however. This guy was one of them.
     
  4. ColinthePilot

    ColinthePilot Member

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    I used to go to an outdoor range in FL. I am usually very aware of range policies and safety rules. The first time i go to a new range, i walk in unarmed and check out the rules to make sure there's nothing unusual then go get my guns. I was there shooting on the rifle range and this kid walks up during a cease fire with a ninja'd AK, action closed (1 rule broken), carrying by the pistol grip (maybe not a violation, but bad practice in my book) and lays it down on the bench i'm sitting on so if it fires, it hits everyone on the bench right in the butt. So I say something to the kid about keeping the weapon pointed downrange and keeping the action open. The kid said something like "I know what i'm doing with my guns." add expletives as you like. I just stood up and said "fine, but i'm gonna stand so i don't get shot in the %#@"
    Couple weeks ago i saw a guy doing a cowboy twirl with a revolver. stupid folks at the range scare the hell out of me.
     
  5. mekender

    mekender Member

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    apparently a couple of years back, the public range here in the national forest had some young white kid that ran out past the firing line while people were shooting, held an AK over his head and started shouting in arabic... needless to say he was tackled pretty quickly... and apparently he was "just joking"
     
  6. woodybrighton

    woodybrighton member

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    fortunatly in the uk most stupid civilians can't gain access to firearms (thats stupid civilians not all civilians )
    but the rifle shooter who decided to take a short cut across a range :eek:got "beasted" back to his gun club friends.
    heavy target rifle above your head for a km and a half on shingle with several angry squaddies encouraging you and when he got there. absolutely no sympathy from the fellow members. Its a military range complex and civillian shooters are tolerated on certain ranges
    being a mong that might get your club barred from using a range won't win your friends:evil:
    mind you theres lots of soldiers who should'nt be trusted with pointy sticks:banghead:
     
  7. 209

    209 Member

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    Sounds like you did a good thing mentioning lead problems and such. However, some people don't like to have anyone mention they're doing something wrong. At some point, that guy will have a lead issue and mother nature will resolve the problem in her own way. Eating food in an indoor range is just foolish. But some people don't understand and I think you met someone from the shallow part of the gene pool.
     
  8. JWarren

    JWarren Member

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    Thanks for sharing that. I tend to agree with you although I have a couple comments.

    Mr.Revolverguy wrote:

    I have often had a drink (non-alcoholic) when shooting. I can't, however, recall myself ever eating anything however. But I tend to have a drink with me at ALL times. Its a good bet that I have shooting more often than not.

    Respectfully, the concern may be overblown. I have been shooting for 30 years now, and probably handled more cartridges than 75% of the people on these gunboards. So far, I am healthy. I wouldn't let that concern prevent me from having a cup of java while shooting. I'm not so sure about the hamburger though. It seems multitasking is getting a little out of hand.

    Now granted, I have never been forced to shoot at ranges-- indoor or otherwise. Vapors are not a concern here. But you mentioned lead residue if I understand you correctly-- that would be a concern regardess of setting. At the same time, if you are shooting at a range, they have rules that you are expected to follow. *I* have rules that anyone that shoots on my property are expected to follow as well.



    Fair enough. He doesn't seem to care. Live and let live. Except that he is violating range rules. They have those for a reason. I can imagine how I'd feel if I occupied his space later only to find mayo smeared on the table.


    That's on the range, not you. It isn't like you went and "tattled" on him-- although it was well within your rights-- and likely expected of you if you are a member of that range.

    I walk out the door and there he is standing with another guy next to his dodge ram dually. I decided it was best to go back into the club and avoid a confrontation. I told the range officer what the deal was and told him as I turned around I heard the one guy mention something to the fact that yeah that's him right there.

    :what:

    THIS is where I REALLY start agreeing with your statement that some people do not belong on the range.



    I hope you are more bummed out by the fact that they were outside waiting for you than the fact that they didn't do it they way you would do it inside. I think that is what you are saying so I am really not directing this to you.

    But I do think that our society is obsessed with the well-being of others. We are very big on telling others what they need to be doing. I think it is some kind of passive-aggressive need or something. I have to be honest with you-- if someone walked up to me while I was sipping coffee while shooting and told me I shouldn't be doing that, I probably wouldn't appreciate it. I would probably appreciate them minding their own business. My mannerisms would convey that message if my words didn't. I'm just being honest with you. Of course, if someone pointed out to me that it was against range rules, I would appologize and get rid of it. But that is different than someone "knowing what is best for me."

    It seems that everyone has a view on how others should live. There are those who want to limit smoking for YOUR health. There are those that want to limit what foods you eat for YOUR health. There are those that want to make sure that you don't have a gun in your home for YOUR health. See the slippery slope?

    The reality is that there is no such thing as being optimally healthy. I know a guy that was obsessed with his health, ate properly, and ran every day. He died at 38 years old from a heart attack. Damn those genetic predispositions!

    People do things I would not personally do all the time. I do some others would not do all the time. Its choices. Sometimes choices have consequences.

    Stoically speaking, it really amazes me that we both talk about how we can save more lives and increase the human lifespan even while we discuss the real concerns of global overpopulation. Perhaps stupidity is nature's way of population control. Perhaps stupidity is an element of humanity's natural selection.

    I think Carlos Mencia was onto something a few seasons ago when he said "The problem with society today is there are too many stupid people and not enough things to eat them."


    So basically, if someones actions are not a danger to me or others, live and let live. Being compassionate, I would likely offer advice to a person that generally seemed to not know. But I don't go around looking for people to mentor. If something is about to happen that I really don't think would be good and really hard to watch... well sure I'd say something. If they ignore me, I would keep a safe distance to insure that nothing gets on my clothes when they go splat.


    But that's just me.


    -- John
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2008
  9. revjen45

    revjen45 Member

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    "Guns can make people stupid." Respectfully disagree. Some stupid people have guns, but they were stupid to start with.
    This Bozo will either give himself heavy metal poisoning or lay for someone who doesn't feel the need to get the police involved. Either way another fecal unit out of the gene pool.
     
  10. Mr.Revolverguy

    Mr.Revolverguy Member

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    Jwarren

    I understand and appreciate your comments. I can see how some may think this was the wrong approach. Because I am a member of this club and make all the meetings I was sure this was someone new visiting. So at the time the guy seemed down to earth so I thought I would take what I believed was the easy approach. Had it been someone I had seen around that I thought was just dead set on ignoring the rules I would have went your route and said hey there are signs on the door before you walk in that say no eating or drinking while on the range. Better yet I probably would not have said anything to the guy and just went and told the range officer. I did think about that approach and thought it may have been a little harsh. This is the reason I approached the guy twice thinking about my delivery and also the reason I had not said anything the first time. He was young and seemed to be very new to shooting so I just figured no need to throw rules in his face. I would much rather have someone approach me as if they had some concern for me as another human being. Nothing to do with filling any passive-aggressive need of mine :) It was about treating others as I expect others to treat me.

    Having spent all of my young years, 2 decades in the Marine Corps caring for others becomes a part of who you are. I do not go around telling people they should not smoke or drive their cars without seat belts to each his own or live and let live as you said. But when it comes to brotherhood and camaraderie on the range it is just a part of who I am, which I realize could be a short coming on my part as viewed by others.
     
  11. sandwich

    sandwich member

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    It's too bad that had to happen to you, but you definitely handled it as well as anyone could have. I probably wouldn't have handled it as well as you did, to be honest with you.

    Plus, I can understand about you being bummed out about it. I think most people have had a similar experience at least once.
     
  12. ranger58

    ranger58 Member

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    very smart move. anytime you can stay out of a confrontation you should. there are always going to be people out there that shouldn't have gun's, unfortunately we can't control that, be aware of your surroundings like you did and making the right move.
     
  13. JWarren

    JWarren Member

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    Mr. Revolverguy,

    Actually, I do not disagree with your actions-- nor do I think you had a need to "control" this guy's actions. I think you handled it well, and I would have likely done the same. I was only editoralizing and offering a perspective.

    I was primarily concerned with his actions AFTER your discussion, and to a lesser degree his lack of respect for the rules of the range.

    Either of those justify your premise that some folks just simply don't belong on a range-- and your sentiment that you'd rather not have those folks representing you as a gunowner. I concure.

    -- John
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2008
  14. Treo

    Treo member

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    The older I get, the more I realize it's usually not a question of people not knowing the rules as it is people not caring about the rules. In a situation like that where the guy isn't endangering anyone but himself, I wouldn't have said a word if I didn't have the authority to enforce the rule.
     
  15. sandwich

    sandwich member

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    This is why I never go to public ranges anymore, except indoor ones once in a blue moon. I don't want to offend anyone, but at least here, the people who go to the public ranges are the people who can't get in to a private range, and usually for good reason. The differences between the public and private ranges here are amazing.

    At the public ranges, there often is no range officer, but plenty of raging jerks. There have been times where I haven't felt safe around some of the people shooting at the range, and would avoid any contact with them (while making sure I had my CCW in my pocket at all times). Some of the people there just need that one last straw to break before they go postal. There are usually power battles about who dictates the firing and target placement cycles. I have seen people break every gun rule in the book, and a few that are lucky to be alive (including a group that started downrange, not realizing that a jerk farther down wanted some more shooting time, even though he had been shooting for at least 20 minutes).

    I am usually very vocal about gun safety, but at the public ranges I would usually keep my mouth shut, simply out of fear that I might have to kill someone if I bring up gun safety issues with a maniac. Sorry to be so, subjective, but I just wanted to give you all an idea of what my public range experience has been here. Maybe they are better in other places, but I don't think I will ever go to a public range around here again.

    As for the private ranges, they are generally in a different class. The one I am at now is great. Everybody follows the rules, I don't fear for my life, I don't have to carry a CW, or worry about my rifles being stolen, no one shoots except members, who can bring a guest, and most people are quite friendly. They have strict rules (one bullet in a rifle magazine at a time, for example), but the trade off is great.

    Sorry to bore you with my stories, but I just wanted to comment on the differences between the public/private ranges because it is an issue I can identify with.
     
  16. JWarren

    JWarren Member

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    I wanted to add....


    Absent the rules, I would have probably said something like:

    Howdy... Did you know that one cause for the fall of the Roman empire is attributed to lead poisoning from lead cups? I'm not telling you what to do, but I dunno if I'd be handling lead bullets while I was eating. I just didn't know if you thought about that."

    If I got shrugged off, its all on him. SOMEONE has to be THAT guy. May as well be him.


    -- John
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2008
  17. Packman

    Packman Member

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    dang...there'd have to be some GREAT perks to that range to make me deal with ONE round in a rifle mag at a time....(we're going to ignore the fact that I've been shooting single-shot rifles lately...but still.)

    Well, if you like it, I guess it's alright though.
     
  18. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    At the indoor range I go to, there is a sign disallowing food or drink in the actual shooting area. Also on the posted list of rules is one saying to report safety violations to a range officer. Implicit in this is that you are expected to and not worry about being a "snitch." I think, personally, that this is what I would have done and not initiated the first contact.
     
  19. CTPistol

    CTPistol Member

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    I wouldnt care if a guy is lead poisoning himself...:barf:...eating a burger inside the range??? wow...

    but some of the other stuff?? Id pack and leave ASAP. A newbee making a mistake? sure I will help (and hope someone points out the same with me)...but a ganster looking dirtbag and his AK? - nah, you need to join a club somewhere.
     
  20. springmom

    springmom Member

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    I always have a drink with me when I shoot. It gets way too hot in the Texas summer (sometimes even in the Texas winters, lol) for me to be out there for a couple of hours without a water bottle. I just leave the cap on the bottle until I'm ready to get a drink; and I put the bottle itself underneath the shooting table on the seat (think of an elementary school desk sort of arrangement; the bench actually attaches to the support under the desk. Eating is for later, after I've washed up.

    You handled the conflict well, which is more than I can say for Mr. Ham and Mayo.

    Springmom
     
  21. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    Wait, you got a guy kicked off the range because he had a burger, then called the cops when you saw him in the parking lot?

    Am I the only one so far that has a problem with this story?

    If he's that insistant on sucking down a burger he's probably going to burst an artery soon anyways. Unless he's shoving the thing in his pie hole while popping off rounds it's not really a safety problem in relation to you and shouldn't be any of your concern.

    ...and the only time there aren't people hanging out talking in the parking lot of the range I go to is when it's raining. Shooting ranges are almost as much social clubs as they are anything else. I see no reason to assume that the guy in the parking lot was there for you.

    What ever happened to letting people be?
     
  22. Mr.Revolverguy

    Mr.Revolverguy Member

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    I got him kicked off the range how do you figure? He got himself kicked off the range when he disobeyed the rules. Not to mentioned he signed a release form when entering the range saying he would obey these rules. Had the guy not been parked right by the door and then tell his buddy yeah thats the blankity blankity right there I would not have thought twice.

    Click I respect your thoughts and comments it is America your entitled but I do not have to agree with them.

    Notice I said call a few friends, friends that I work with closely on a daily basis :) technically I did not have to call anyone.
     
  23. Chuck Dye

    Chuck Dye Member

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    Unless you have undertaken lead specific tissue assays, how would you know? Indeed, given that cognitive impairment is one of the symptoms of lead poisoning, without those tissue assays, mightn't you be even less likely to recognize your own early symptoms?
     
  24. RoadkingLarry

    RoadkingLarry Member

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    There, fixed it for you :)
     
  25. lonegunman

    lonegunman Member

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    Instead of going over, being nosy and pretending to be friendly, you should have walked over and simply said, "Excuse me, no food or drinks are allowed on the firing line. The range officers will ride your ass if they see it because it is a heath and safety issue." Why beat around the bush?

    We have the same rules at a few places I shoot and it is unusual to find someone who does not know about the dangers of lead and does not take care to avoid ingesting it. So I am all for a friendly warning. But, you seem to have taken great care to be nosy and memorize everything the guy owned on the table. I'm sure he wasn't fooled into thinking you were being his buddy either.

    I shoot a lot of bullseye and competitive rifle so I spend a lot of time at the range. It seems that about once a month some guy walks over to finger-f@#k my gear or peek in my gun box and seems to always have unwanted advice or to complain to the RO about my target turner or the brass piled on the floor. Like everyone else, I want to be left alone to practice in peace.

    The guy was looking for a friendly place to shoot and you made sure he didn't find it. Stopping eating on the range could have been done in a nicer fashion. The flipside to the slob shooters are the regulars who take their range nazi duties too far.
     
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