In a thread regarding an ND a while back, I posted that if it were me, I would lock the guns up and think about whether I'd go back. I was in the minority that didn't just waive it off as something that happens and is acceptable. The fact that your attitude places your participation in the sport in check shows your regret. It would be understandable to leave. However, I agree with others who say that you're a professional, and a safe one. Whatever you do from here, no one will fault you for. But I do hope you give some serious thought to hanging onto those 50 centerfire beauties, and taking them back out again sometime in the near future. Take care, sir.
Some people just should not have guns. (Me)
- Thread starter bigjim
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Hey ! The last person who walked this earth without making a mistake got nailed to a cross .
Many years ago my firearm mistake cut the strap on a sandel - while my brother was wearing it ! Now that's closer than you came to hurting anybody and it made me a much safer shooter from that moment on.
Don't be so damn hard on yourself - your mistake can make you an even safer person to be shooting next to , and most certainly I believe it will.
Many years ago my firearm mistake cut the strap on a sandel - while my brother was wearing it ! Now that's closer than you came to hurting anybody and it made me a much safer shooter from that moment on.
Don't be so damn hard on yourself - your mistake can make you an even safer person to be shooting next to , and most certainly I believe it will.
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jobu07
Contributing Member
I think, that as distinguished and individual you are to the shooting community, that the best thing you can do is as everyone says, get back on the horse, and keep fighting. We need people that are willing to put the time in like you have to keep fighting for us. You may have done wrong, but that's just more reason to learn from our mistakes, and keep going.
BluesBear
member
Everything In The Universe Happens For A Reason
Now it is up to you BigJim, to discover that reason, and from that point on teach others what you have learned.
(I'll give you a hint... the reason this happened is NOT to stop you from ever shooting again.)
Perhaps you need to start teaching safety again. After all if it can happen to you it can happen to ANY of us.
Think of this incident not as a low point but as a turning point.
You have knowledge and years of experience. Please don't let that go to waste. To do that would be a definite shame.
Look at it this way. You have already made ALL of us think. Not just those of us who have posted but all of the others who have read this. You have re-opened our eyes to the possibility that this could happen to any one of us.
As embarassing as this may be, word of this will spread like wildfire around your range. BUT, everyone there will now be more careful. A LOT more careful.
The shooters will become more cautious, the RSOs will become more observant.
So you see a lot of good has already come from this incident.
As was previously pointed out, you have identified a deficency in the range procedures. Hopefully this will be addressed and corrected.
You might just have saved someones life.
That which does not kill us makes us stronger.
Exercise your new found strength my friend. Use it wisely.
We're all with you.
Now it is up to you BigJim, to discover that reason, and from that point on teach others what you have learned.
(I'll give you a hint... the reason this happened is NOT to stop you from ever shooting again.)
Perhaps you need to start teaching safety again. After all if it can happen to you it can happen to ANY of us.
Think of this incident not as a low point but as a turning point.
You have knowledge and years of experience. Please don't let that go to waste. To do that would be a definite shame.
Look at it this way. You have already made ALL of us think. Not just those of us who have posted but all of the others who have read this. You have re-opened our eyes to the possibility that this could happen to any one of us.
As embarassing as this may be, word of this will spread like wildfire around your range. BUT, everyone there will now be more careful. A LOT more careful.
The shooters will become more cautious, the RSOs will become more observant.
So you see a lot of good has already come from this incident.
As was previously pointed out, you have identified a deficency in the range procedures. Hopefully this will be addressed and corrected.
You might just have saved someones life.
That which does not kill us makes us stronger.
Exercise your new found strength my friend. Use it wisely.
We're all with you.
Cool Hand Luke 22:36
member
You are so familiar with this range that you were on auto-pilot and shot instinctively without really thinking about it. Sort of like how you put on your seatbelt without thinking about it when you first sit in your car.
It might be a good idea to visit several ranges rather than just the same one year after year. That would force you to become more aware of your surroundings each time you shoot.
It might be a good idea to visit several ranges rather than just the same one year after year. That would force you to become more aware of your surroundings each time you shoot.
OH25shooter
Member
I don't have an answer, but I will say this. I takes guts to admit and post (on a gun forum) such an incident occurred. Maybe that was your way of getting back on the saddle. Now all you have to do is ride. You'll be fine. Besides, just think how cautious you will be from now on. Welcome to the human race.
I am amazed the the responses here. Thanks to all of you. After a nights
sleep I am no longer in such a hurry to sell my guns and walk away from the hobby that has brought me so much joy so long.
I am still very upset however and that will take time to fade. I am going to take a hiatus from the range and the gun forums.
Am also going to go buy some flags and a flashing yell light for the range. They are always having to yell at folks that step back to the bench. That idea could help.
Once again thanks to all of you for being willing to let me off the hook.
Jim
sleep I am no longer in such a hurry to sell my guns and walk away from the hobby that has brought me so much joy so long.
I am still very upset however and that will take time to fade. I am going to take a hiatus from the range and the gun forums.
Am also going to go buy some flags and a flashing yell light for the range. They are always having to yell at folks that step back to the bench. That idea could help.
Once again thanks to all of you for being willing to let me off the hook.
Jim
DarkKnight01
Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2005
- Messages
- 391
IMO you need more than voice commands when people are doing things such as shooting guns, and wearing ear protection..... its like asking a blind man to read.....
BigJim,
Lots of good advise above. If you were an ???????, without a conscience, you wouldn't be airing your mistake here. It's obvious that you are sick with the situation and what could've happened. Good.
Now, if I were to point fingers it would be hypocritical. Just three years ago, on a vacation trip with my wife and little ones, I had a simular thing happen. It was late and dark, on the way home and I went to sleep. The trucker's attention and his airhorn were the only things that saved our lives. I had drifted off and was heading for his rig as he passed by. When I woke up my driver's side mirror was only an inch away from the big rig's trailer. Made me sick thinking of all those I might have killed with my moment of "inattention". My wife, the girls, the driver, the folks behind us and me. My wife finished the driving that night.
Did I quit driving that 4 ton "deadly weapon"? No. But, I make sure that there is plenty of caffein in my well rested system before I take it on the road at night. I'd bet that you won't make your mistake twice.
Lots of good advise above. If you were an ???????, without a conscience, you wouldn't be airing your mistake here. It's obvious that you are sick with the situation and what could've happened. Good.
Now, if I were to point fingers it would be hypocritical. Just three years ago, on a vacation trip with my wife and little ones, I had a simular thing happen. It was late and dark, on the way home and I went to sleep. The trucker's attention and his airhorn were the only things that saved our lives. I had drifted off and was heading for his rig as he passed by. When I woke up my driver's side mirror was only an inch away from the big rig's trailer. Made me sick thinking of all those I might have killed with my moment of "inattention". My wife, the girls, the driver, the folks behind us and me. My wife finished the driving that night.
Did I quit driving that 4 ton "deadly weapon"? No. But, I make sure that there is plenty of caffein in my well rested system before I take it on the road at night. I'd bet that you won't make your mistake twice.
Jim,
First of all, let me commend you on your acknowledgement as to the seriousness of your error. Many people would simply have blown it off as a little thing and vowed to never do it again. Since you appear to be a very conscientious person I am wondering if there was something else going on in your life that you were preoccupied with? I have a very strong feeling that you will never ever make this mistake again. If you do, then I agree you should not go to a range with other people around. Best of luck and don't continue to beat yourself up over this.
First of all, let me commend you on your acknowledgement as to the seriousness of your error. Many people would simply have blown it off as a little thing and vowed to never do it again. Since you appear to be a very conscientious person I am wondering if there was something else going on in your life that you were preoccupied with? I have a very strong feeling that you will never ever make this mistake again. If you do, then I agree you should not go to a range with other people around. Best of luck and don't continue to beat yourself up over this.
fiVe
Member
BigJim,
I'm glad you decided to stay with shooting. Your post took a lot of guts and humility. Had you quit, I think you would've made a second mistake. Thanks for posting---it helped us all. Don't stay gone too long.
R/fiVe
I'm glad you decided to stay with shooting. Your post took a lot of guts and humility. Had you quit, I think you would've made a second mistake. Thanks for posting---it helped us all. Don't stay gone too long.
R/fiVe
Lots of older shooters have problems hearing range commands with plugs and/or muffs. For me, hearing loss was caused by shooting without protection in younger years and by jet engine noise on the flight line. If hearing range commands is a problem, get some Peltor 6 or 7 electronic muffs.
mhdishere
Member
Another vote for you not giving up shooting.
You had a brain fade. While it COULD have been bad, it wasn't, and frankly given your level of skill and training it's highly unlikely it would have been. It's one thing to shoot at your target from a cold range, but if you'd actually SEEN people downrange would you have shot? If you couldn't see them you weren't likely to hit them.
Complacency gets everyone eventually. I have a feeling it'll be a LONG time before it happens to you again. You're just the kind of guy I'd like to have shooting next to me, because you've had your brain fade and you're not likely to have another.
Perhaps a good gift for the guys at your range would be to give each one a pair of clean underwear.
You had a brain fade. While it COULD have been bad, it wasn't, and frankly given your level of skill and training it's highly unlikely it would have been. It's one thing to shoot at your target from a cold range, but if you'd actually SEEN people downrange would you have shot? If you couldn't see them you weren't likely to hit them.
Complacency gets everyone eventually. I have a feeling it'll be a LONG time before it happens to you again. You're just the kind of guy I'd like to have shooting next to me, because you've had your brain fade and you're not likely to have another.
Perhaps a good gift for the guys at your range would be to give each one a pair of clean underwear.
SkyDaver
Member
Big Jim,
I just saw this thread, and have to commend you on your candor.
The only thing I would add is that if you continue to instruct, you will have a very vivid real life experience to relate to your students. This can only be a good thing.
Although you made a mistake, it does not seem that you violated any of the four rules.
Best wishes.
I just saw this thread, and have to commend you on your candor.
The only thing I would add is that if you continue to instruct, you will have a very vivid real life experience to relate to your students. This can only be a good thing.
Although you made a mistake, it does not seem that you violated any of the four rules.
Best wishes.
Ginger
Member
Jim,
Please give some thought to what people have written before you give up shooting.
I don't know about you but I once drove straight through a red light. I saw the light. I had been driving way long enough to know it was not only illegal but potentially fatal. Nothing beyond own mind distracted me. Fortunately, I did not get T-boned by another car or hit a pedestrian.
Do you think I should have given up driving because of that lapse? My error had just as much potential for fatality as yours. More really since I could have hit a school bus.
It has never happened to me again. Please reconsider. You are probably even safer now. I know I am.
Please give some thought to what people have written before you give up shooting.
I don't know about you but I once drove straight through a red light. I saw the light. I had been driving way long enough to know it was not only illegal but potentially fatal. Nothing beyond own mind distracted me. Fortunately, I did not get T-boned by another car or hit a pedestrian.
Do you think I should have given up driving because of that lapse? My error had just as much potential for fatality as yours. More really since I could have hit a school bus.
It has never happened to me again. Please reconsider. You are probably even safer now. I know I am.
Big Jim...what a story..what an experience..glad it was not me! I am, however, not as sympathetic.
Clearly you were on a brain fart, or distracted or or or.... but, that is the only the result of something that was underlying your thought process that day. Until you can fully explain (to yourself) why you were distracted and how you are able to correct that for the future, I would be really concerned.
I don't think that the comment about getting physical is out of line. For someone to make that big of an error, there is "something" wrong. The "I was distracted" etc. is obvious, but why? What would cause you to in effect ignore years of training?
You can't learn from mistakes until you are aware of the "why" or "what" caused the mistake.
Best wishes .... figure it out and get back on the horse.
Clearly you were on a brain fart, or distracted or or or.... but, that is the only the result of something that was underlying your thought process that day. Until you can fully explain (to yourself) why you were distracted and how you are able to correct that for the future, I would be really concerned.
I don't think that the comment about getting physical is out of line. For someone to make that big of an error, there is "something" wrong. The "I was distracted" etc. is obvious, but why? What would cause you to in effect ignore years of training?
You can't learn from mistakes until you are aware of the "why" or "what" caused the mistake.
Best wishes .... figure it out and get back on the horse.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
first of all, dont stop shooting, and dont sell your guns.
i think what stands out is that you didnt just blow your mistake off as being 'normal'. i've seen a guy have a ND and act as if it didnt happen. (he was trying to put his homemade boot back on to the face of the trigger to his homemade racegun, while the gun was loaded. only casualty was my stapler, and i have yet to find an adequate replacement for that stapler!)
i've stopped a guy from shooting while people were downrange, and in his field of vision! stopped the same guy from running to the target while other people (also in his field of vision) were still shooting!
i've watched as a guy raised his hand, called 'cease fire', and started walking downrange while everyone else was still trying to clear their weapons, and the guy at the far side who didnt see the guy call the cease fire, was still shooting.
all those idiots i just mentioned, didnt think twice about their lack of regard for simple safety rules. you however, are not treating it lightly, and you are to be commended for that.
i think what stands out is that you didnt just blow your mistake off as being 'normal'. i've seen a guy have a ND and act as if it didnt happen. (he was trying to put his homemade boot back on to the face of the trigger to his homemade racegun, while the gun was loaded. only casualty was my stapler, and i have yet to find an adequate replacement for that stapler!)
i've stopped a guy from shooting while people were downrange, and in his field of vision! stopped the same guy from running to the target while other people (also in his field of vision) were still shooting!
i've watched as a guy raised his hand, called 'cease fire', and started walking downrange while everyone else was still trying to clear their weapons, and the guy at the far side who didnt see the guy call the cease fire, was still shooting.
all those idiots i just mentioned, didnt think twice about their lack of regard for simple safety rules. you however, are not treating it lightly, and you are to be commended for that.
Big Jim: I think you are handling this well. If you had just shrugged the incident off and thought it was no big deal then I would consider you a danger to others. You have not shown that attitude.
I also agree that you should try to resolve in your mind exactly what it was that caused your momentary lack of awareness and make that the object of this "lesson". As a biker and a shooter, I know how important it is to never let my mind go on autopilot when engaged in these activities. But I am as human as you and every other person who has posted in this thread. Such a thing could happen to me one day if I ever let my guard down. Reading about your experience makes it just a little less likely -- it's a wake up call to all of us.
Don't give up shooting. Just commit yourself to a renewed clarity whenever you visit the range.
One more thing: those that think something like this can't happen to them are fooling themselves in a dangerous way. Thanks for sharing your story.
I also agree that you should try to resolve in your mind exactly what it was that caused your momentary lack of awareness and make that the object of this "lesson". As a biker and a shooter, I know how important it is to never let my mind go on autopilot when engaged in these activities. But I am as human as you and every other person who has posted in this thread. Such a thing could happen to me one day if I ever let my guard down. Reading about your experience makes it just a little less likely -- it's a wake up call to all of us.
Don't give up shooting. Just commit yourself to a renewed clarity whenever you visit the range.
One more thing: those that think something like this can't happen to them are fooling themselves in a dangerous way. Thanks for sharing your story.
DRZinn
Member
I've made many similar lapses in non-shooting situations, so I know exactly what you did. (Apologies if someone else already said this; I haven't read the entire thread.)
After years and years of shooting, you got to the point where everything was second-nature. Not just the mechanics of shooting, but the whole process of shooting, stepping back, walking to your target, etc, etc, etc, and you stopped thinking. And then your autopilot failed.
The lesson? Think. No matter how simple something is, no matter how second-nature it is, think about what you're doing. Always.
If it's any consolation, the reason something like this could happen is precisely because you were so good.
After years and years of shooting, you got to the point where everything was second-nature. Not just the mechanics of shooting, but the whole process of shooting, stepping back, walking to your target, etc, etc, etc, and you stopped thinking. And then your autopilot failed.
The lesson? Think. No matter how simple something is, no matter how second-nature it is, think about what you're doing. Always.
If it's any consolation, the reason something like this could happen is precisely because you were so good.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Let me add a small caveat - and i have mentioned these before. I try my best to apply them with biking, shooting - everyday life really.
"Don't assume" !!!
"Expect the unexpected".
In essence this helps make for that double take - first take you miss something - second time you see it ... saves face and butt often!
Not infallable but sure can help - certainly at my age! 
"Don't assume" !!!
"Expect the unexpected".
In essence this helps make for that double take - first take you miss something - second time you see it ... saves face and butt often!
Not infallable but sure can help - certainly at my age! Your are correct sir. It is clear that a mistake such as this is unforgivable. Someone who could behave in such a way is not to be trusted and should never touch a firearm again.
In fact, this shows such a severe lack of intelligence, judgement, and moral fiber, that you should also eliminate the following from your life:
Driving a car.
Handling anything sharp.
Touching anything that is potentially flammable.
I am sure that I am missing other behaviours that you should refrain from (sex perhaps???) in order to eliminate the possible danger you present to the human race.
In fact, after careful reflection, I think in the future you should probably just sit at home, with the lights turned out (you might electrocute someone!) and have no interaction with anyone else at all.
Yeah, thats the ticket!
Obviously, the above is written in jest -- My real comment is; Get over it -- you are human and infinitely fallable -- join the rest of us imperfect slobs!!!! And for goodness sake, drop the self-pity!
PirateShot
Member
It was a mistake, you learned and I doubt you will ever do it again. What-if's don't accomplish anything.
NHBB
Member
I think we have all had an embarrassing moment at the range at one point or another, whether or not someone else took notice of it.
chalk it up to experience, it happens.
chalk it up to experience, it happens.
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