Someone bring back the Luger.
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BarnsBeware
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Amen on the Ruger MKII 9mm. I've got one (.22) and have always thought of it as my prettiest piece. Now if only she had some punch...
As far as the $15K Luger repros go, they are supposed to be exact authorized reproductions of the 2 .45s Luger made for the US military prior to WW2. The Springfield Armory said they were great but just turned them down. One is presumed destroyed. The other original just sold for $800K but has been appraised at $1M. I believe the $15K price tag is more for the limited run (400 copies maybe?) rather than the expense of machining. At least thats what History Channel said...
As far as the $15K Luger repros go, they are supposed to be exact authorized reproductions of the 2 .45s Luger made for the US military prior to WW2. The Springfield Armory said they were great but just turned them down. One is presumed destroyed. The other original just sold for $800K but has been appraised at $1M. I believe the $15K price tag is more for the limited run (400 copies maybe?) rather than the expense of machining. At least thats what History Channel said...
Walt Sherrill
Member
I've got an older Luger (one part not matching) that was captured by the Soviets during WWII.
Its a great-shooting gun, but because they were, in effect, basically hand-fit weapons, anything that needs repair also need "fitting." I've replaced a lot of stuff over the past five years. The trigger on mine is superior -- somebody's handy work (not mine.)
Very accurate, great conversation piece. Lots of fun. But magazines are a pain -- and finding ones that work is difficult. (Getting a couple of new Mec-Gars seems to have solved feeding problems.)
Just don't expect the reliability you might be used to with more modern guns (or with an older 1911.)
Sights SUCK and its almost impossible to do anything about them.
Its a great-shooting gun, but because they were, in effect, basically hand-fit weapons, anything that needs repair also need "fitting." I've replaced a lot of stuff over the past five years. The trigger on mine is superior -- somebody's handy work (not mine.)
Very accurate, great conversation piece. Lots of fun. But magazines are a pain -- and finding ones that work is difficult. (Getting a couple of new Mec-Gars seems to have solved feeding problems.)
Just don't expect the reliability you might be used to with more modern guns (or with an older 1911.)
Sights SUCK and its almost impossible to do anything about them.
Here are some Luger ideas, maybe to explain why they still hold interest.
Lugers, as made in the first half of the last century, are pieces of art as well as functional. The form strictly follows function, according to the relevant art precept, and yet that utilitarian form is graceful in appearance and its mechanical operation.
Consider its styling, timeless, still beautiful after a century. Not many guns can stand up to this test of time. In fact, the reputation some hold of the Luger being finicky has to be seen in the context of a gun between 50 and 100 years old, still functoning. Where is a Glock going to be in 50 years, if anyone cares ?
A Luger must have the proper balance between its mainspring and magazine spring. Lugers that have been maintained, or at least left alone, for the years between, and have their springs in balance and the fit adjusted on their parts, can do very well. Most of the parts can be adapted from gun to gun, with a bit of fitting.
I have an Erfurt barrel and slide functioning perfectly on a DWM frame, with some modern reproduction parts in between, and make up an excellent shooting gun. Yes a Luger does have a slide of sorts, part of the barrel extension slides back on the frame while the breech is still locked, until chamber pressure is dropped, and the ramps have kicked the knee joint upward past their over-center alignment.
In fact, a Luger achieves a simpler and easier to understand mechanical design than any other autoloader, with all its linear trigger and sear train accessible and visible with just a simple field strip. No tools are needed, the only screws in a Luger are the two grip screws. Everything else is interlocked or pinned. A luger's firing pin can be removed with no tools, in just a few seconds, and replaced just as fast.
The safety is amazingly simple and efficient, and easy to understand. A Luger is a piece of art in its contrivance. It takes alot of expensive maching of the parts to have this ingenious machine work, and the gun was not the ideal war gun, as its inherent necessary precision was not easy to maintain in the mud and mess of wars.
The action itself, inhereted from the Maxim maching gun design, has lighter parts than a traditional slide operated semi-auto, and so cycles faster.
One reason, besides its inherent precision, for the Lugers accuracy is the recoil motion directly backward of the barrel/slide along the frame rails, without any ramping, tilting, or wiggling links or blocks.
I have six Lugers from Germany's Imperial era, all presently functioning fine when used with healthy magazines. The oldest one is a 1910.
The stainless steel Lugers made in Texas for Stoeger and Mitchell are not hardened properly or sufficiently in the critical areas needed to keep working for very long. I had three, trying to make at least one of them a usable reliable gun, but they were tearing themselfves up with each shot, and their workmanship and milling was sloppy compared to the quality maintained by every German manufacturer, over their 40 some odd years of production. Many of these stainless steel parts are not repaceable or interchangable with original Luger parts, as well.
It is easy to make the Lugers sucky sights work better, if you have a shooter you that is appropriate to modify, by just filing out, with a good jewelers file, the tiny rear V-notch to a wider U or square notch. Be patient, the metal in the rear link with its integral rear notch is extremely hard, and will take awhile to file out, if you want a good job. I've done that on three of my six Lugers, for the shooters. The front sight is just drift-adjustable, and replaceable with different height sights.
Everyone thinks Nazi when they see a Luger, but the gun has better origins in its American and Imperial German heritage, and was first in production long before the Nazi era.
THe P38 - now that's the Nazi gun, and by the way, the direct design ancestor of our present military Berettas.
Lugers, as made in the first half of the last century, are pieces of art as well as functional. The form strictly follows function, according to the relevant art precept, and yet that utilitarian form is graceful in appearance and its mechanical operation.
Consider its styling, timeless, still beautiful after a century. Not many guns can stand up to this test of time. In fact, the reputation some hold of the Luger being finicky has to be seen in the context of a gun between 50 and 100 years old, still functoning. Where is a Glock going to be in 50 years, if anyone cares ?
A Luger must have the proper balance between its mainspring and magazine spring. Lugers that have been maintained, or at least left alone, for the years between, and have their springs in balance and the fit adjusted on their parts, can do very well. Most of the parts can be adapted from gun to gun, with a bit of fitting.
I have an Erfurt barrel and slide functioning perfectly on a DWM frame, with some modern reproduction parts in between, and make up an excellent shooting gun. Yes a Luger does have a slide of sorts, part of the barrel extension slides back on the frame while the breech is still locked, until chamber pressure is dropped, and the ramps have kicked the knee joint upward past their over-center alignment.
In fact, a Luger achieves a simpler and easier to understand mechanical design than any other autoloader, with all its linear trigger and sear train accessible and visible with just a simple field strip. No tools are needed, the only screws in a Luger are the two grip screws. Everything else is interlocked or pinned. A luger's firing pin can be removed with no tools, in just a few seconds, and replaced just as fast.
The safety is amazingly simple and efficient, and easy to understand. A Luger is a piece of art in its contrivance. It takes alot of expensive maching of the parts to have this ingenious machine work, and the gun was not the ideal war gun, as its inherent necessary precision was not easy to maintain in the mud and mess of wars.
The action itself, inhereted from the Maxim maching gun design, has lighter parts than a traditional slide operated semi-auto, and so cycles faster.
One reason, besides its inherent precision, for the Lugers accuracy is the recoil motion directly backward of the barrel/slide along the frame rails, without any ramping, tilting, or wiggling links or blocks.
I have six Lugers from Germany's Imperial era, all presently functioning fine when used with healthy magazines. The oldest one is a 1910.
The stainless steel Lugers made in Texas for Stoeger and Mitchell are not hardened properly or sufficiently in the critical areas needed to keep working for very long. I had three, trying to make at least one of them a usable reliable gun, but they were tearing themselfves up with each shot, and their workmanship and milling was sloppy compared to the quality maintained by every German manufacturer, over their 40 some odd years of production. Many of these stainless steel parts are not repaceable or interchangable with original Luger parts, as well.
It is easy to make the Lugers sucky sights work better, if you have a shooter you that is appropriate to modify, by just filing out, with a good jewelers file, the tiny rear V-notch to a wider U or square notch. Be patient, the metal in the rear link with its integral rear notch is extremely hard, and will take awhile to file out, if you want a good job. I've done that on three of my six Lugers, for the shooters. The front sight is just drift-adjustable, and replaceable with different height sights.
Everyone thinks Nazi when they see a Luger, but the gun has better origins in its American and Imperial German heritage, and was first in production long before the Nazi era.
THe P38 - now that's the Nazi gun, and by the way, the direct design ancestor of our present military Berettas.
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The nambu mentioned as having am exposed sear (I've got one laying around here somewhere) is the 6.5mm IIRC, I've even got some ammo laying around that someone made out of necked down .380 brass, not that I'm about to go fire the thing. Real wallhanger.
Anyway, as far as the luger, there are plenty of real ones about to satisfy current demand. A new production one just won't cut it, c'mon, a 9mm pistol in todays saturated market of super-reliable 9's with a price point near 2k? Under 1k will buy you any number of other combat capable 9mm handguns, and as a bonus, they won't bounce brass onto your head or down the back of your collar either.
The luger is an interesting gun, but stand it next to a simple fighting weapon like the 1911 design, and it just doesn't make grade. Folks will still buy em, but I don't see a new market springing up.
Anyway, as far as the luger, there are plenty of real ones about to satisfy current demand. A new production one just won't cut it, c'mon, a 9mm pistol in todays saturated market of super-reliable 9's with a price point near 2k? Under 1k will buy you any number of other combat capable 9mm handguns, and as a bonus, they won't bounce brass onto your head or down the back of your collar either.
The luger is an interesting gun, but stand it next to a simple fighting weapon like the 1911 design, and it just doesn't make grade. Folks will still buy em, but I don't see a new market springing up.
elChupacabra!
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My God - this is a FIVE YEAR thread resurrection... maybe the longest I've witnessed myself... awesome 
By the way, Krieghoff of Germany has put in limited production a run of 200 new P08 commercial Lugers, produced on new tooling, but identical in every respect to originals, resuming serial numbers from their 1940's sequence where they were curtailed by the end of the war. They had a price listed at about $17,545 USD, as of posting date.
http://www.krieghoff.com/content/view/176/145/
http://www.krieghoff.com/content/view/176/145/
Phil DeGraves
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Nambu Type 14 in 8mm Nambu was the inspiration for the Ruger MK1 Auto Pistol. The Type 94 Nambu had the long sear in the side of the frame that could be fired without pulling the trigger. It is one of the worst designed auto pistols in history.
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