Someone can explain to me the 357 Magnum "struck by lightning" myth??
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tipoc
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It's B.S.
As someone else said already, it's a metaphor. Hit someone in the head a good whack with a baseball bat and it will be "as if they were struck by lightning". As always how a person reacts on being shot depends on a lot of factors. Sometimes it's as if they were "struck by lightning". Sometimes not.
The .357 can be a good defensive round but it is not known as Thor's Hammer. That's the .45 Colt ain't it? Or is it the .44 Spl ? I forget now.
tipoc
As someone else said already, it's a metaphor. Hit someone in the head a good whack with a baseball bat and it will be "as if they were struck by lightning". As always how a person reacts on being shot depends on a lot of factors. Sometimes it's as if they were "struck by lightning". Sometimes not.
The .357 can be a good defensive round but it is not known as Thor's Hammer. That's the .45 Colt ain't it? Or is it the .44 Spl ? I forget now.
tipoc
PotatoJudge
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Redneckrepairs, I'm gonna be the despised equivalent of a grammar nazi and point out that it's the somatic and not the sympathetic nervous system you're describing. You're right though in that the autonomic nervous system has a huge effect on how a person reacts to a gunshot.
Anybody know how the hammer is back on the revolver in Evocatti's pic?
Anybody know how the hammer is back on the revolver in Evocatti's pic?
Grump
Member
According to some light fiction I remember from the early years of American Handgunner, the "Thor's Hammer" appelation sprung from an IPSC shooter named Taylor who was transported back(1) in time to some pre-literate era Norsefolks who watched him drop attacking Cro-Magnons or similar lower life forms using his trusty M1911 Gummint Model.
Not quite being edumated 'nuff to understand that some things can travel faster than the eye can see, they interpreted the roughly hammer-shaped object and its "thunder", and the cycling slide and recoil, as the shooter throwing his hammer at the attackers and catching it on the return flight.
Their language and resultant attention to some sounds was such that Ys and Ls were difficult and tended to disappear in speech. Thus "Taylor" became "Ta-orr".
The rest, of course, is history. Or myth. I get confused.
(1) At the moment of time- (and I might add, space-) transport, the hero of the story happened to be fully outfitted in his competition kit. It was a bit chilly for him until he scored some furs from the locals.
How's that for being cursed with a [sometimes-] good memory!
Not quite being edumated 'nuff to understand that some things can travel faster than the eye can see, they interpreted the roughly hammer-shaped object and its "thunder", and the cycling slide and recoil, as the shooter throwing his hammer at the attackers and catching it on the return flight.
Their language and resultant attention to some sounds was such that Ys and Ls were difficult and tended to disappear in speech. Thus "Taylor" became "Ta-orr".
The rest, of course, is history. Or myth. I get confused.
(1) At the moment of time- (and I might add, space-) transport, the hero of the story happened to be fully outfitted in his competition kit. It was a bit chilly for him until he scored some furs from the locals.
How's that for being cursed with a [sometimes-] good memory!
Grump
Member
Potatojudge:
It's the basic firearms muzzle flash photo flash-bang technique.
Known to only a few of the most select cogniscenti, it involves a dark room (-no- any place!), flash photography, and a shooter who yanks the trigger after the flash has fired.
Works OK even with flashbulbs, most crisp and stunning in detail with the modern strobe (Thank you, Dr. Edgerton!).
It's the basic firearms muzzle flash photo flash-bang technique.
Known to only a few of the most select cogniscenti, it involves a dark room (-no- any place!), flash photography, and a shooter who yanks the trigger after the flash has fired.
Works OK even with flashbulbs, most crisp and stunning in detail with the modern strobe (Thank you, Dr. Edgerton!).
Katana8869
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I don't know about lightning but the .357 leaves some of the nastiest hangun wounds I have ever seen. The one that most sticks in my mind was a headshoot that I took on a feral dog about 15 years ago. This was a 125 gr Remington SJHP out of a 6" S&W Model 19. The dog was some kind of bulldog mix and probably went about 100 lbs. The bullet hit him in the side of the head and left about a 3" exit wound on the opposite side. The pressure inside the cranium blew both eyes out of their sockets. Nasty stuff.
I agree that with most hangun rounds,including 9mm and .45acp you are just punching a hole, but the .357 just seems to me to have a more vicious effect on whatever it smacks into.
I agree that with most hangun rounds,including 9mm and .45acp you are just punching a hole, but the .357 just seems to me to have a more vicious effect on whatever it smacks into.
zxcvbob
Member
Someone has been looking at too many Extreme Shock ammo ads.
2ndamd
Member
I will opine for a moment about the absolute awesome stopping power of the 125 grn .357 magnum JHP from Federal or Remington.
It is legendary! It is what all other handgun calibers aspire to be when stopping a threat is concerned. There have been thousands of shootings with these two rounds. Quite simply they work.....very well. The .357 magnum is as close to a rifle power caliber that you can get. They are great.
But, I'd take an 870 with 00 buckshot or a slug if I had the choice.
The muzzle blast is huge, many can not handle the recoil or more accurately the sonic BLAST or concussion of the BLAST for any long period of time. They only hold 5-8 rounds....or 9-10 in your Marlin. The round lost its favor for these reasons.
Now the 40 short and weak is posting some good numbers in the one shot stop area. But, the 9mm 115grn +p+ JHP from Federal model # 9BPLE has been used in over 1000 shootings that qualified for a one shot stop study and it produced a 93% one shot stop. It is very mild in recoil and concussion to the 357 mag, and the guns can hold alot more rounds. Like double or triple. Of course this mean you are suppose to be able to stop more attackers and not miss 15 shots in-a-row Some LEO still need to practice basic marksmanship and save their spray and pray. Keep your head and hit your target.
There are alot of great handgun defense rounds out there. And I just sold all of my 357 revos & levers to get more autos before the Assault Weapon Ban 2.0 comes back via McCain or Hitlery or Hussain Obama. Stocking up on ammo and high capacity magazines. Having said that I personally believe in the 125 grn .357 mag bullet's legendary stopping performance which all other handgun rounds are judged by.
When Ed and Evan did their one-shot stop study they only looked at torso hits. But there are many other shootings that occured where a torso hit was NOT obtained. This 125 grn jhp rounds from Federal or Remington actually stayed with a very high one shot stop even when a solid torso hit was NOT made. The other handgun calibers fell off significantly with no torso hit.
Point being. Torso hits count more. Thus, get the round that you can shoot well under stress. If you slightly miss the torso but manage to hit the target "somewhere" Then, a .357 magnum 125 grn round from Federal or Remington will have a higher percentage of stopping the threat that other hangun rounds.
Now, if I slightly miss? I will keep shooting the threat with my Federal 9BPLE 115 grn +p+ JHP. I mean I have 33 rounds in the magazine
This post was meant to be informative and fun and not meant to start a caliber war.
God Bless all you gun owners!
Always good to see DPris checking in!
It is legendary! It is what all other handgun calibers aspire to be when stopping a threat is concerned. There have been thousands of shootings with these two rounds. Quite simply they work.....very well. The .357 magnum is as close to a rifle power caliber that you can get. They are great.
But, I'd take an 870 with 00 buckshot or a slug if I had the choice.
The muzzle blast is huge, many can not handle the recoil or more accurately the sonic BLAST or concussion of the BLAST for any long period of time. They only hold 5-8 rounds....or 9-10 in your Marlin. The round lost its favor for these reasons.
Now the 40 short and weak is posting some good numbers in the one shot stop area. But, the 9mm 115grn +p+ JHP from Federal model # 9BPLE has been used in over 1000 shootings that qualified for a one shot stop study and it produced a 93% one shot stop. It is very mild in recoil and concussion to the 357 mag, and the guns can hold alot more rounds. Like double or triple. Of course this mean you are suppose to be able to stop more attackers and not miss 15 shots in-a-row
Some LEO still need to practice basic marksmanship and save their spray and pray. Keep your head and hit your target. There are alot of great handgun defense rounds out there. And I just sold all of my 357 revos & levers to get more autos before the Assault Weapon Ban 2.0 comes back via McCain or Hitlery or Hussain Obama. Stocking up on ammo and high capacity magazines. Having said that I personally believe in the 125 grn .357 mag bullet's legendary stopping performance which all other handgun rounds are judged by.
When Ed and Evan did their one-shot stop study they only looked at torso hits. But there are many other shootings that occured where a torso hit was NOT obtained. This 125 grn jhp rounds from Federal or Remington actually stayed with a very high one shot stop even when a solid torso hit was NOT made. The other handgun calibers fell off significantly with no torso hit.
Point being. Torso hits count more. Thus, get the round that you can shoot well under stress. If you slightly miss the torso but manage to hit the target "somewhere" Then, a .357 magnum 125 grn round from Federal or Remington will have a higher percentage of stopping the threat that other hangun rounds.
Now, if I slightly miss? I will keep shooting the threat with my Federal 9BPLE 115 grn +p+ JHP. I mean I have 33 rounds in the magazine
This post was meant to be informative and fun and not meant to start a caliber war.
God Bless all you gun owners!
Always good to see DPris checking in!
The Bushmaster
Member
Evocatii...All that flame and the hammer is still in the full cock position...Hummmm...
Feanaro
Member
If you look closely at the picture, you can see the hammer in both the cocked and fired position.
hoptob
Member
Agree. The picture was taken in the dark with front curtain flash and long exposure. If they did it DA the picture would have looked more realistic.
Good catch, Bushmaster!
Mike
Good catch, Bushmaster!
Mike
Vern Humphrey
Member
My experience has been (on two occasions) that the target is gone before you get the sights back on. Of course, these cases were both "center-punched."
Confederate
Member
Yes, but it should be added that the diameter of the bullet must be exactly .357 (+/- .0005) or the static envelope doesn't form exactly as it should. Some specialty bullets have actually been known to create worm holes that transport the bullet through an indefinate measure of time and space, which is one reason they should be avoided. Specialty bullets for the .357 theoretically can pass through one's intended target and kill a person living in a completely different time and place. In fact, I know of several cases where police investigators have not been able to find any trace of the bullets. I have a friend who knows a guy who's brother worked with a guy who used to work for the Park Police. He said this might have been the case with an alleged suicide at Fort Marcy Park in Virginia a number of years ago. In this case not only did the bullet mysteriously vanish, so did photographs and all sorts of material evidence. Even the body changed position from one part of the park to the other. It was weird.
It's best to use standard .357 mag ammo, if only to avoid worm holes.
BTW, how does one react when "struck by lightning"? Wouldn't the person making the comparison have to have seen someone struck by lightning? I've seen people struck by white lightning, and it wasn't pretty. Still, he wasn't complaining....
tipoc
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Jeez and I thought that was the .45 acp, or maybe the .45 Colt, or the .44 Spl. I forget which. I'm so easily confused.
But not so confused as not to know that one shot stop percentages are often B.S. and to be taken with a dose of salt at best.
I have to go now and talk with my ammo and see what else they aspire to. "American Idol" perhaps.
tipoc
jad0110
Member
IMO, these two posts explain it best so far.
In regards to the second quoted post, I did see one theory recently that stated that though the pressure wave itself (hydrostatic shock) of a bullet traveling at typical handgun velocities has little or no impact on most of the tissues in the human body (inelastic tissues such as those of the liver and brain excluded), that pressure wave can - in theory - disrupt nervous system signals and cause sudden, involuntary reactions in the person shot. Thus, the theory concludes that higher velocity handgun rounds (such as 125 grain 357 mags of at least 1450 fps) have a better chance of distrupting nerve impulses and stopping the threat.
That may be true, or maybe not. I'll take shot placement and penetration over that theory any day. I am a better shot with 38+P, and good loads offer good penetration, so I'll stick to that in my 686 for now.
Dan-O
Member
tipoc,
you have never shot a .357, have you?
you have never shot a .357, have you?
PotatoJudge
Member
Looks like tipoc owns a couple of real classy N frame 357 mags.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=277018&highlight=357+magnum
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=277018&highlight=357+magnum
Dan-O
Member
Ooops. Guess he has. I would have to agree that the one shot myth is kind of silly, but you will have to admit, shooting .357 from a short barreled, and light gun can be a bit punishing on the shooter. Like others have said, shooting .357 rounds will blow a paper target around out to about 15 feet.
Tipoc, my apologies.
Tipoc, my apologies.
2ndamd
Member
LOL!
You are a serious gunny when you start talking to your ammo.
No flame war here. Just reporting on actual street shootings. To each his own. Hence my carry gun of choice is now a 9mm +p+. EEK!!!!!
aryfrosty
Member
I am a serious believer in the .357mag round. If you want serious muzzle flash try Remington 125 JHPs. They put a plume of flash out for about 5 feet at night. I have seen failures...even failures which accomplished the intended result. I talked to a destraught man for over 2 hours one evening, trying to talk him out of the Python he was holding and he went ahead and shot into his mouth. WW 158 JCP . He did what he wanted to do but with minimal damage to his head. Lots of blood. Enough damage to end his pain. Put that one in whatever column you're of a mind to.
Dksimon
Member
Dont know anything about how it compares to being struck by lightning but i sure as heck wouldnt want to get hit by one!
A good friend of mine, an ex LEO who helped me work on my hearing loss, said that the good thing about Magnums in general is that if the bullet doesn't stop the attacker, the muzzle flash will set them on fire!
(Of course, he was only joking...)
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