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Someone forgot Rule #4

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by sumpnz, Sep 30, 2005.

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  1. sumpnz

    sumpnz Member

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    Be sure of your target and what's beyond.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9541458/

    If this truely was an accident, and not intentional, this "friend" is going to spend a long time in jail. If it was intentional I hope he gets the death penalty.
     
  2. PATH

    PATH Member

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    Hanging is too good for someone who acts like Ted Kennedy! :fire:
     
  3. Tory

    Tory member

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    That's TWO "hunters"

    who:

    1. Shot someone;

    2. Due to their own disregard of basic safety rules;

    3. PROMISED help; and

    4. Then fled.

    The first was about 5 weeks ago; a Mass. hunter in NH. Now this homicidal cretin. In each case, their subsequent inaction should elevate a negligent homicide to Murder One - reckless disregard.

    "Jasper" sentences for each. :what:
     
  4. MrTuffPaws

    MrTuffPaws Member

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    How the *&#$ do you think some human is a squirrel?
     
  5. torpid

    torpid Member

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    To be fair, the victim did look rather squirrel-like.

    .
     
  6. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    I share your outrage, but I fail to see how the subsequent inaction could possibly raise that charge to murder 1. First degree murder requires both intent and premeditation.

    This is clearly a case of negligent homicide. The failure to seek assistance may tack on an additional charge or three, but I don't think it will raise it to first degree murder.

    Does anyone recall what the disposition was for that nurse in Texas who hit a pedestrian and then left him to die in her garage because she was afraid to call for help? I would expect this to play out similarly.
     
  7. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    Kinda lost the High Road there, didn't you?
     
  8. middy

    middy Member

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    Coward! :cuss:
     
  9. 20cows

    20cows Member

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    :what:
    People "just die in the woods" around there often?!

    I'm callin' BS on the "accidental" shooting. Two shots, one in the heart. :fire: One shot is an accident. A second, apparently carefully aimed, is murder.
     
  10. Tory

    Tory member

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    Reckless disregard and murder

    "I share your outrage, but I fail to see how the subsequent inaction could possibly raise that charge to murder 1. First degree murder requires both intent and premeditation."...The failure to seek assistance may tack on an additional charge or three, but I don't think it will raise it to first degree murder."

    You clearly need to review the matter:

    1. Victim is shot by a "hunter" claiming he was shooting at squirrels. Regardless of whether squirrels are even in season and whether the "hunter" has a license, he fired at LEAST twice at the victim (2 hits);

    2. Killer scores TWO hits - one in the HEART - which indicates intent;

    3. Killer confirms that he has hit and seriously wounded a human;

    4. Killer promises victim to obtain aid; and

    5. Then goes off to play games and party while his victim slowly dies alone in woods.

    THAT pattern of conduct suggests the INTENTION of killing the victim.

    At the very least, your assertion that "This is clearly a case of negligent homicide" is legally untenable and intellectually absurd. Read it for yourself:

    Reckless disregard 1. Conscious indifference to the consequences of an act....3 The intentional commission of a harmful act or the failure to do a required act when the actor knows or has reason to know of facts that would lead a reasonable person to realize that the actor's conduct both creates an unreasonable risk of harm to someone and involves a high risk of probability that substantial harm will result.

    Black's Law Dictionary (8th Ed.) 2004

    A "reckless disregard" killing is Second Degree Murder; not mere "negligent homicide." :scrutiny:

    On the facts given, your claims of "an additional charge or three" and cavalier dismissal of the gravity of this act just don't wash. :barf:
     
  11. sturmruger

    sturmruger Member

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    It is squirrel season here in WI it opened on Sept 17th. I was out this weekend and can't imagine how you could mistake a bow hunting human for a squirrel!! He must have been shooting from over 50 yards and was using open sights. When I am hunting I use a 3-9X scope and can literally see the eyes of the little buggers before I fire. Why wouldn't he at least summon some help??
     
  12. seanmc42

    seanmc42 Member

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    Considering he was shot TWICE - I think it was intentional.
    Guy should die. Period.

    As a society we have a responsibilty to KILL all those who commit senseless acts of violence.
     
  13. torpid

    torpid Member

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    Yeah, I usually try to keep it more above board, but sadly it is a better defense than the shooter has.

    .
     
  14. Stinkyshoe

    Stinkyshoe Member

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    That is very tragic. Stay safe folks...it is our responsibility.
     
  15. dolanp

    dolanp Member

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    So are they saying they wouldn't have figured out he'd been shot unless they had the tape? :confused:

    I sure hope not.
     
  16. seanmc42

    seanmc42 Member

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    Well, if there were no visible wounds - why would they?
    Do you think our tax money should be spent on autopsies
    for EVERYONE that dies?
     
  17. LaEscopeta

    LaEscopeta Member

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    Said without a trace of irony.

    Yes. I think there should be a death certificate signed by a MD for every death. If the MD has been treating the deceased, and they can determine the cause of death without an autopsy, one is not needed. If someone thought to be healthy turns up dead, I think we need a doctor to figure why they died. I think we can afford this, and it is tax money well spent.
     
  18. GregGry

    GregGry Member

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    Wow another sad story from my state...

    That is incorrect, in my state, premeditation is not a requirement to get the first degee.

    Straight from the memory bank of my mind "whoever causes the death of another human being with the intent to kill that person or another is guilty of a felony, Class A.
     
  19. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    You didn't identify your state. Not all states differentiate between first degree murder and second degree murder, I believe. Even if they do, I rather imagine both would be considered class A felonies.

    But I wasn't trying to cite any state's law, I was responding to the statement that the shooter should be convicted of first degree murder. My point was that if the guy was shooting at what he thought was a squirrel, premeditation certainly wasn't there, and his intent was to shoot a squirrel not to shoot a human being, so it appears that intent wasn't there.

    So we have a dumba$$ who didn't verify his target, and whose actions AFTER the shooting were reprehensible. I agree with all of that. I just don't see how it can possibly be spun into first degree murder. I don't even think it makes the grade as second degree murder. (Or, if the state doesn't differentiate, I don't see it making the grade as murder at all.)
     
  20. Mnemesyne

    Mnemesyne Member

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    imho toast em...people like that don't deserve to live.....accidental my backside....... :cuss:
     
  21. Tory

    Tory member

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    Willful ignorance

    "I don't even think it makes the grade as second degree murder. (Or, if the state doesn't differentiate, I don't see it making the grade as murder at all.)"

    You have obviously chosen to ignore the facts and law set forth above to rationalize your decision. How transparently irresponsible and pathetic.....
     
  22. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    The following is from a follow-up report on the shooter's appearance in court.
    Apparently the prosecutor also chose to ignore the facts and law as you see them. I assume I can count on you to contact the prosecutor forthwith and set him straight as to the law in his jurisdiction? Surely you won't leave the county with a "transparently irresponsible and pathetic" prosecutor ...
     
  23. Tory

    Tory member

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    Hoist on your own petard....

    "Apparently the prosecutor also chose to ignore the facts and law as you see them."

    Hardly. The prosecutor brought FIRST DEGREE MURDER charges against the maggot, per your own post:

    "first-degree reckless homicide"

    This is precisely what I stated in my original post:

    "their subsequent inaction should elevate a negligent homicide to Murder One - reckless disregard."

    But hey; thanks for playing. Now enjoy the home version of our game... :rolleyes:
     
  24. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    Tory --

    For your information, first degree reckless homicide is NOT first degree murder.

    If you don't believe me, call the prosecutor's office and ask them.

    The following are from the state statutes as accessed directly from the State of Wisconsin's web site. It appears that Wisconsin uses the term "intentional homicide" rather than "murder," but the fact remains that's not what the guy was charged with.

     
  25. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

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    Sounds like they couldn't uncover any evidence that he had murderous intent when he shot. Just the suspicious circumstances of the shooting and the fact that he was an idiot.
     
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