Quantcast

Something's Gotta Give

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by D.B. Cooper, Jan 26, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DukeConnor

    DukeConnor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    Messages:
    591
    if i want accurate powder charges, i throw a charge (usually .5 less than desired charge) and use a trickler to "trickle" up to my final charge.
     
  2. Riccochet

    Riccochet Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2019
    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Unionville, NC
    Get some type of graphite or PTFE dry lube spray. Spray down a q-tip and wipe all surfaces that the powder discharges from and through. This includes the drum cup, extension and powder die. This works better than a drier sheet for keeping static in check, and lasts longer. Which, honestly, I think is the problem. One charge has some grains that are sticking to parts, causing a short throw. The next charge dislodges all those stuck kernels and causes an over charge.
     
    tightgroup tiger and D.B. Cooper like this.
  3. D Rock

    D Rock Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    436
    Location:
    Colorado
    D.B. Cooper, when I switched to the Auto Drum I had a few issues on trading out drums.

    Before you buy another one, and with no powder in the unit, make sure that the drum cavity is returning to the same place every time it's activated. You don't want to over tighten the drum screw. With the powder reservoir removed, look down from the top and activate the drum with a case in the shell holder, just like if you were dropping powder. Keep doing it and watching to make sure that the cavity returns to the same spot every time. Sometimes the drum screw is tightened too much and the cavity doesn't' return consistently. I've seen that happen when people tighten the screw too much to avoid powder leaks.

    Dave
     
  4. drband

    drband Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,473
    Location:
    GA
    Static "could" be the issue. My AutoDrums are so "used" the interior parts all look coated with graphite just from the amount of powder that has been put through them. They never hang up or bridge powder. In fact, when using up the last of my Red Dot, the charges dropped true all the way to the end of the powder until the final drop when there was not enough powder in the drum to drop a full load. (I visually checked and weighed the last dozen or so drops.) The hopper was completely empty and the body of the AutoDrum was empty at that point! Of course, that's with thousands of drops through the device.
     
  5. drband

    drband Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,473
    Location:
    GA
    Good tip! You will also find as the drum wears in, you will need to tighten it up a bit. My drums are pretty well tightened up all the way now, but were definitely not that way when I started each one.
     
  6. JRWhit

    JRWhit Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,011
    Location:
    MO
    I had similar problems with the Auto drum. Fact is they don't work consistently with certain powders. It would work great until it didn't. When it didn't it would result in a squib. I finally switched to a RCBS UniFlow . I still mount it on the Turret for volume hand gun loading. The key is consistency. Run the turret in a steady rhythm, same pull every time. The Uniflow works for me with many more powders. I keep the hopper at least 1/3 full. Variables that effect charges include temperature fluctuation, any jarring of the hopper outside of the turret rhythm, and compromised powder. Powder should go from powder container to hopper and back to container when done. Powder left in the hopper will acclimate to the room conditions and add multiple variables that could effect flow of the powder and burn rate consistency.
    Rule out variables. Temp fluctuation, humidity changes, drafts, sloppy tolerances in dies or turret.
     
  7. D Rock

    D Rock Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    436
    Location:
    Colorado
    I've spent most of my time reloading 9 mm. Around 10K rounds thru that drum, and very little thru .380 Auto and .45 ACP drums, 1K each. On your well used drums have you seen any wear around the cavity of the drum? I haven't on my 9 mm.

    JRWhit, I know it's not supposed to be necessary with the Lee powder reservoir, but just to help avoid variance in the powder at different levels, I got this 3D printed baffle from Titan. Seems to work well.
    https://www.titanreloading.com/titan-reloading-products/titan-round-powder-baffle

    BykereS.jpg

    0y37rqt.jpg

    Dave
     
    Wreck-n-Crew likes this.
  8. drband

    drband Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,473
    Location:
    GA
    No wear at all on any of my drums near the cavity. They seem just like new.
    Probably 15-20K through my 9mm drum, 8-10k through my .45acp drum. Others somewhat less.

    The baffle you posted sure won't hurt, but the powders I use in the AutoDrum just don't need it. I did always use a homemade baffle with my AutoDisk measures... seemed to help them.
     
  9. Riccochet

    Riccochet Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2019
    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Unionville, NC
    With my auto disk I've found that as long as I keep the hopper 1/4 or more full it charged pretty accurately. Using a LCT I'd run it around 10-15 times, dumping the charges back in the hopper, to let the powder settle. Then it was rarely ever more than .1gr off per charge. I only run ball powders in it, so that helps.
     
    Wreck-n-Crew likes this.
  10. Tilos

    Tilos Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,490
    Yup this^
    Shooting a group from a rest, over a crony if you have one, at match distances, will tell you what the ammo is capable of.
    Get someone else to shoot groups with your stuff too, takes you out of the mix.
    you'll get there,
    :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
    D.B. Cooper and drband like this.
  11. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    2,901
    Clays, and I switched to that from Unique because I was having all sorts of measuring/throwing problems with Unique. (And it was incredibly dirty. Guys would rib me about shooting black powder because of all the smoke it produced. The gun would be absolutely filthy after 50 rounds. (As in, if you touch it, your hands will be black from soot.) Clays measures almost as bad but shoots really clean. (It also requires bout half the powder charge, so it brought my overall cost per round down.)
     
  12. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,282
    I also use a lot of dryer sheets.
     
  13. Stevenvalleyky

    Stevenvalleyky Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2017
    Messages:
    223
    The battery operated marital Aid works great I posted a picture I believe here showing it taped to the side of my hopper on my auto drum but apparently it was too risque and was deleted and I was told this isn't a porn site or something along those lines. Anyway, it does work well. Keeping it above half full as often as possible helps some hard to measure powders get more consistent although some just not going to throw the same every time no matter what with some powders although I can usually get to .1gr variation. I notice if something happens where for some reason I don't use the charge I just dropped, say for instance if it wasn't the charge I wanted and I'm going to dump it back in the hopper, just dropping another charge will definitely be smaller with some powders. Since you didn't go through the cycle of spinning the turret as well as pushing a case up into the different dies before returning back to the autodrum spot on the turret,which all creates vibration and makes more powder able to pack into the autodrum. It's to the point now where if I don't use a charge for some reason I will cycle the handle and go through the hole turret just not pushing case up into the dies and then drop another load of powder. But not too often do I pull a charge out and check it and it be so far off that I have to dump it back in the hopper and drop again so its not a big deal.
    D.B. Cooper, the key is consistency. For me in order to know I did it the same every time, I always double tap when I'm pushing the handle back up. I also make sure to go all the way down and pause momentarily at the bottom of the stroke. I try to make sure every stroke is just like the one before it at least the same way it was the last time it was at that same station on the turret so it's always consistent.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
    bersaguy likes this.
  14. ACES&8S

    ACES&8S Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2017
    Messages:
    733
    Location:
    Virginia
    Be strong my brother,,, the word is true in the instructions,,, follow the words to find satisfaction.
    The fault is in [us] not the devices described in the words of instructions. They are absolute & without failing.
    I to thought I had found fault in reloading equipment but after many efforts to make the perfect cartridge &
    another one [ exactly ] like it, I found it impossible. It must be myself. The overall length drives me nuts
    as well as your problem. Anyone who says it is easy the way they do it is bending the ---word.
     
  15. Taurus 617 CCW

    Taurus 617 CCW Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2003
    Messages:
    1,801
    Location:
    Northern Idaho
    I didn't have any issues with my Lee powder measure when I was using it in the single stage mode. I now use an RCBS uniflow powder measure with a baffle in the hopper. Never had an issue with that one either. I use a Frankford Arsenal digital pocket scale to weigh each charge before putting them in the cases. I am not a high volume reloader so I can afford to take my time.
     
  16. Wreck-n-Crew

    Wreck-n-Crew Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,370
    Location:
    ohio
    I've found that making a baffle for the Lee measures is pretty easy and some YouTube videos show you how. You could also order one from Titan as DRock suggested. Either way they help a little but not as much as you would hope.

    The biggest problem in powder metering seems to be the granules. Their shape and size determine the consistency in powder charge weights for me. CFE pistol and Autocomp are two of the best metering powders I have used. Autocomp Meters like water for me through the Autodisk Pro with a +/- .1gr variance. It is a little flashy but not as flashy as some powders. But case fill is poor and some people don't like the chance of double charge with it. I haven't used CFE Pistol but once and I cant remember how much case fill you get with it to compare. But its a decent powder and my throws were real consistent too.

    I've had decent luck using the disks with rifle powders. But I now only load 300 Blackout with the powder measure anymore and use CFE Black. Its so fine it meters like water. My 308 loads are hand weighed.

    My advice for the pistol rounds is to try a finer ball powder eventually if you can, Good luck.
     
    drband likes this.
  17. splattergun

    splattergun Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,042
    Location:
    Utah
    so you threw some charges that came out 3.5 to 3.8 gns. Good! THat's a plus-or-minus 1/10th gn throw, if your target charge is 3.6, allowing for a minor variable in the scale as well. Perfectly acceptable if you continue with that average.

    Be certain that the internal parts of the Auto drum are lubed with graphite (provided by the powder you use). And once again, consistency.
     
  18. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,282
    I'm inclined to agree there's some bit or bits of plastic stuck in on the inside of the internals. It's the easiest way to explain that much of a variance, on a regular basis.
     
  19. entropy

    entropy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    11,887
    Location:
    G_d's Country, WI
    Stick to single stage presses, use a beam scale, and Lee dippers.

    See above answer.



    Lee dippers, $12.99, Lee scale, $29.99 (Though I recommend the RCBS/Ohaus 505), Lee Breech Lock press, $38.99. This is the cheap end, it can go up as high as you want......

    While progressives can churn out lots of rounds, the consistency is not not comparable to a single stage press, with individual charges hand weighed on a beam scale. I use Lee dippers, and select the one just below the desired charge, dump a full dipper in the pan, scoop another full dipper, then shake it over the pan like I'm salting food until I get a level reading. I loaded 200 .45 ACP cases today that I had all prepped, took 4.5 hours, but I wasn't trying to set a record. But they will be consistent and accurate loads. (5.0 Bullseye, 230 gr. coated lead.)
     
    FROGO207 and Bfh_auto like this.
  20. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Messages:
    6,151
    Location:
    Southern CA
    Clays is a large disk, so probably does not meter well.
    http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=84

    For something meters great try AA#2, slower than Clays but faster than Unique (data is available for .44 Special)
    http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=184
    It meters about as well as any powder I have used.


    Alliant Sport Pistol is a little slower than Clays but close and also meters very well for me.
    W244 or HP38/W231 might be an option as well, maybe Titegroup.

    Pictures are not a sure way to tell how something will meter, but the odds are the closer it is to cornflakes or small logs the worse it will meter.
    Cornflakes:)
    http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=103
    Logs
    http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=74
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
    D.B. Cooper and Skgreen like this.
  21. drband

    drband Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,473
    Location:
    GA
    D.B. Cooper and Skgreen like this.
  22. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    2,901
    I see what you mean by "smalll logs." That stuff is fat. Not like 4895 at all.
     
    Skgreen likes this.
  23. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Messages:
    6,151
    Location:
    Southern CA
    Tilos and Skgreen like this.
  24. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Messages:
    6,151
    Location:
    Southern CA
    AA#2 is fairly bulky as well, not as much as Unique or Clays but takes more space than say Titegroup or HP38
     
  25. drband

    drband Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,473
    Location:
    GA
    Alliant Unique
    upload_2019-2-2_12-24-3.jpeg

    Accurate #2
    upload_2019-2-2_12-25-6.jpeg

    Accurate#2 does not look bulky at all, especially compared to Unique.

    I also find #2 to be much finer than HP38:

    upload_2019-2-2_12-28-27.png
     
    Sebastian likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice