Spears? No one talks about spears here?

[Seedy Character]

Nothing against them. I just seem to gravitate to Hornady and Nosler. Always had good results with them.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

hiking with one sounds like a solid idea. years ago at a camp, a neighbor a ways down the old dirt road always had dogs that were a bit on the come right up to you and growl 3 feet away, although as far as I know nobody ever got a bit from one of them, but - growling angry dogs get on my nerves. after a while i figured out you didn't have to even hit them, just the sight of grabbing any long stick and waving it over my head in a threatening way would send any of those dogs the other way. I never found out, but speculate that those dogs knew what a beating stick was.

You can turn a spear around, and butt an aggressive dog with the....wait for it...butt of the spear, if you don't want to severely injure or kill the dog. I have some kind of steel, brass or wire wrapped butt on all my spears so they can be used as a "non-lethal" weapon, in some instances.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Nothing against them. I just seem to gravitate to Hornady and Nosier. Always has good results with them.

Except a spear never runs out of ammo.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Spears are great weapons. Hunting with them is a big challenge. It sounds adventurous and romantic at the outset, but a lot of today's hunters choke at the raw brutality of the kill.

View attachment 1052080

That's right, some guys are hunting hogs with them, in some places. Yes, I don't imagine actually killing something with a spear is exactly "fun". For sure it would be brutal.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I haven't fooled much with this stuff since my SCA days long ago, but I was fond of the boar spear.

That's one serious hunk of spear.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

This is the most incredible book on African hunting I have ever read. I rate it above Capstick, and that is high praise indeed. It is the life story of John Hunter, one of the most famous PHs of all time, who lived and hunted in the "Glory years" of African hunting, the first half of the twentieth century. In it, Hunter devotes a full chapter on a lion hunt with Masai tribesmen he witnessed. He describes both the spears used and the short swords called "semi's" that the Masai closed in with to hack the Lion to pieces. They would surround a Lion and when the lion charged, whoever was the target had to hold his ground. The spear blades were soft iron and easily bent. A bloodied, bent blade was never straightened until later. It was admired and proof you were in on the kill. As can be seen in the pic, the blades were very long and the shafts quite short. These were not throwing weapons.

Sorry about the sideways pic, my puter has covid.

Yes, I believe the Masai passage to manhood was to kill a lion with a spear. I think that pretty much confirms how lethal a good spear is.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I've been a fan for a while, though admittedly I neglected their use for hunting or defense against animals, probably because I don't live near deep wilderness anymore. I'd definitely consider if it went into those areas again. I got interested in them through martial arts; Chinese at first, then recently historical European (partisan and pike). I have a couple different sizes and types, from a small makura yari (Japanese bedside spear) to a 10 ft pike, as well as a few rubber-headed training ones. Sparring last summer was great fun with my friends, and we experimented with a variety of weapon pairings. We can armchair about combat from behind a keyboard all day long, but there's nothing quite like actual full-contact sparring and I learned a couple of useful things.
Generally speaking, the spear wielder is going to have the advantage over someone with a shorter weapon, even without a lot of training. It's simple: The reach means you can just stab them before they ever get close enough to hurt you. A clever opponent with a short weapon will try to get around the point by pushing it aside or parrying it, and then close in very fast where they will then have the advantage. But there are ways to counter this. One is holding the point out as bait for the opponent to try and knock aside, but when they try, you drop the point just low enough they miss, then bring it back up and into their torso or head. Another is to simply deny them the point by holding it low at their knees, with the spear butt high. This means they can't interfere with it without leaning forward, putting their head and chest into range. Finally, with shorter spears, it's over overlooked then you can pull the haft back very quickly and still be presenting a sharp point even if someone is close up.

You know more about this than I, but I believe a good swordsman and a good spearman are a pretty even match. ??

 

[Seedy Character]

Except a spear never runs out of ammo.

Chunk it once and you have nothing.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Chunk it once and you have nothing.

Exactly!!! NEVER, ever, ever, throw your spear!!!! Be like throwing one's rifle or pistol at the threat.

 

[Reinz]

hiking with one sounds like a solid idea. years ago at a camp, a neighbor a ways down the old dirt road always had dogs that were a bit on the come right up to you and growl 3 feet away, although as far as I know nobody ever got a bit from one of them, but - growling angry dogs get on my nerves. after a while i figured out you didn't have to even hit them, just the sight of grabbing any long stick and waving it over my head in a threatening way would send any of those dogs the other way. I never found out, but speculate that those dogs knew what a beating stick was.

I carry a Sjambok with me on my daily walk. Had a pit Bull try to attack my leashed dogs in my neighborhood a few months ago. This Sjambok definitely scared him away.

Later, when I was alone the dog tried to attack me. I almost shot him, but decided to wave the Sjambok instead.

 

[CapnMac]

but I believe a good swordsman and a good spearman are a pretty even match. ??

Depends upon the sword, the spear and the parties wielding them. HEMA (Historic European Martial Arts) uses these things to test such conclusions.
Longsword versus a short halberd is pretty close match given equal skills by the carriers. Change that to a hand-and-a-half sword versus a pike or bill hook, and the reach difference becomes telling, at least one on one.

In Japan, the tachi (long mounted sword) is considered an equal to the yari (short spear). With mochi (long pike) you wanted to answer with naginata, which may be descended from the Chinese guan dao. (Picture a katana blade on a four to five foot haft.)

Many of the long and pole arms are meant for unhorsing, as well as to create stand-off distance in melée warfare.

Your Mileage May Vary.

 

[CapnMac]

throw your spear!

Well, yeah, you throw a javelin, or pillium. A spear meant to be thrown needs a different construction than one meant to be kept to hand for close combat.

With the tactical problem of how to keep your javelin flingers supplied. And the distinct problem of the bad guys turning around and flinging them back at you. So, you then have an issue of building them to be good, once. The Roman Pillium being an example. It has a wooden haft, and a long, soft iron shaft on the head. So that, what ever it hits, the haft bends the shaft of the point, whether that's the enemy or the ground.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I stated: "do NOT throw your spear!". ??? Hope you didn't do that on purpose!!

Or...am I too dense to get the joke?

 

[glistam]

You know more about this than I, but I believe a good swordsman and a good spearman are a pretty even match. ??

I've heard this theory, but don't have enough first-hand data to say for sure. My gut is to doubt it based on a bit of historical knowledge (swords were generally sidearms, spears were primary weapons), but I think it depends on a lot of factors. For example, a swordsman might be very good with lots of experience against other swords, e.g. an accomplished fencer, but never gone up against a spear before. I noticed the specific types of weapons had a lot of influence too. For example one- or two-handed swords, shields, spear length, spear heads that also cut or hook etc.

 

[Officers'Wife]

You know more about this than I, but I believe a good swordsman and a good spearman are a pretty even match. ??

Perhaps, but I’ve been told men armed with bastions (batons) held their own with Japanese soldiers on Luzon during the 2nd world war. They were specialized attacks but going up against bayoneted rifles with sticks… Further proof it ain’t the machine it’s the operator.

 

[film495]

You can turn a spear around, and butt an aggressive dog with the....wait for it...butt of the spear, if you don't want to severely injure or kill the dog. I have some kind of steel, brass or wire wrapped butt on all my spears so they can be used as a "non-lethal" weapon, in some instances.

right. just making the point - those dogs would see a 4 or 5 foot piece of a tree branch and basically dissapear. it totally changed their attitude. it kind of reminded me reading about running into a large cat in the wild. I've never had that experience, but - if that happened I'd sure wish I had a spear, even if just to wave it around and yell and scare the cat away.

 

[theotherwaldo]

I'm partial to plumbata as throwing weapons:

I don't throw my spears.

 

[Seedy Character]

I'm partial to plumbata as throwing weapons:

I don't throw my spears.

Yard darts - one of your favorite things, growing up.

 

[Charlie Martinez]

I think a spear is a great tool to have when hiking and an effective weapon if used properly especially against dangerous animals. In Africa the spear seems to be considered an effective weapon by people that live in lion country like the Masai. I would not go as far as to say it's better than a firearm but to keep a dangerous animal at bay it is definitely superior to an ax , a knife or a bow.

A book called "Tigrero" was written by a fellow named Sasha Simiel who migrated to Brazil from Europe in the early 1900's. Simiel and his brother were running away from the law and ended up living deep in the Brazilian jungle where they met an indian that taught them to hunt and kill jaguars with a spear.

The jaguar was chased by dogs until cornered then the hunter would approach and incite a charge which would be stopped with the point of the spear. The jaguar would basically impale himself in the chest. The book includes photos of Simiel killing a jaguar that weighed 350 lbs. Ironically there's also a photo of the skull of the same indian that taught him to hunt this way. Simiel found it in the jungle near the man's home. The spear lay broken near the skull that had four holes made by the jaguar's canines. It appears that the old indian's reflexes were not what they once were & he lost his last battle.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I read a very long time ago that some Alaskan Native Americans would hunt/kill bear that way, they would put the butt of the spear against a large tree, and the bear would impale it's self when it charged. I don't remember where I read that, of if it was true, but imagine the cool, the courage, and the focus it would take to do that!! The source also mentioned that that practice was given up after the Natives had access to the Winchester .30-30, which became the weapon of choice. !

 

[Seedy Character]

I read a very long time ago that some Alaskan Native Americans would hunt/kill bear that way, they would put the butt of the spear against a large tree, and the bear would impale it's self when it charged. I don't remember where I read that, of if it was true, but imagine the cool, the courage, and the focus it would take to do that!! The source also mentioned that that practice was given up after the Natives had access to the Winchester .30-30, which became the weapon of choice. !

Clint Walker done it, in "Night of the Grizzly"

 

[Jim Watson]

Why a boar spear has a crossbar.

 

[JeffG]

Why a boar spear has a crossbar.

I assume that's a question. The crossbar prevents over penetration, making it possible to withdraw the spear and strike again. Having the boar (or soldier) run up the spear shaft to within hot breath distance, creates its own set of problems.

 

[Jim Watson]

No, a statement, apparently too short even though no question mark.
Ever see a boar SWORD with crossbar?

 

[IlikeSA]

Couple of comments.

1: someone did a test comparing a spear vs a sword and the spear won handily. I don't remember the details but remember seeing it on YouTube about a year ago or so. I do remember thinking that it was a fair test.

2: does anyone remember the hunt that Lynn Thomson did with that water buffalo and the spear? He had to do some quick movements and ended up having to shoot it with his revolver as he missed with the spear.