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Spears?

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by P.B.Walsh, Mar 24, 2013.

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  1. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    Hi, couldn't find any old threads about spears. I have found great interest in them and was looking at buying a spearhead or spear outright. Basically I am looking for a decent spearhead. I am going to mount it on a 7'-8' shaft.

    I know that this is a very vauge and different question, but what would be a decent spearhead for under $100 that is somewhat historicaly accurate to those of the Greek hopilites?

    Purpose/Need for this: none
    Want: 8/10

    Oh any links to techniques would be appreciated, but I'm sure I could roughly go off of an old bayonet manual.

    Thank you,
    P.B. Walsh
     
  2. Piraticalbob

    Piraticalbob Member

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    Museum Replicas has a couple of different offerings, both "Greek" and replicas from the movie 300.
     
  3. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    Yeah, I have looked at those, came real close to buying, I was just unsure of their comstruction and durability, I do not want a "showpeice", but something funtional.

    Lets not get on how a firearm or other tool is better, I hate nonfunctional items.
     
  4. glistam

    glistam Member

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    http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=600074&name=Greek+Spear+Head

    Seller also has a lot of others. I have a 20" leaf-shaped spearhead from this same manufacturer (Windlass) that performs very well though, the edges were not sharp when I received it. Fit's nicely on a shovel handle with a little sanding and a screw. Only jabbed it into straw targets but it's held up and makes neat holes.

    If you want to learn technique, find a local HEMA or SCA chapter.
     
  5. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Spear is the ultimate close-range manual weapon. The basic manual of arms is easy to learn, and it's really, really hard to stop and deceptively fast. 8-9' overall is about ideal, with a slightly shorter spear (counter-intuitively) being better suited for use by very skilled practitioners.

    Something like a Cold Steel Boar Spear isn't a bad way to go, just starting out.
     
  6. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    I've been reading S. M Stirling's 'Change' series lately, and it's given me a deeper appreciation for weapons and tactics in the pre-gunpowder era. I've always had an interest in how technology drove tactics after the invention of gunpowder (thanks to exposure some years ago to Art Alphin's lectures at the USMA) and this is proving to be a natural extension of that interest.

    See http://hem.bredband.net/b108107/stirling/ for some sample chapters from Stirling, if interested.

    BTW, you might consider a butt spike for your hoplite spear as well, if you want it for thrusting and not throwing. Museum Replicas sells Windlass Steelcrafts' products - http://www.museumreplicas.com/c-32-pole-arms-spearheads-butt-caps.aspx, and Kult of Athena has a wider variety - http://www.kultofathena.com/spears.asp.

    I ran across http://www.amazon.com/STORM-OF-SPEARS-Understanding-Hoplite/dp/161200119X - it looks interesting...
     
  7. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, butt spikes have disadvantages, too, especially for the beginner. I'd start with something simpler, until you've had some practice. A sharp end and a blunt end gives versatility, and you're less likely to hurt yourself.

    John
     
  8. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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  9. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    Glistam, gonna sound stupid, but how are you attaching it? Glue or a screw? If a screw, how did you drill through hardened steel?

    Glad to know that the ones from KoA and the other Windlass ones are decent, I was wary because of their prices.
     
  10. BruiseLee

    BruiseLee Member

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    You could get a Cold Steel Bushman cheap and attach the hollow handle to the end of a wooden pole.

    SOG also make the Spirit Knife, which is also designed to be mounted on the end of a long pole. You should be able to get either of these for well under $40.

    You could also check out a martial art store for a Chinese Red Tassel spear. Not really sure how well the spear point would hold up in actual use. The wood will definitely hold up well, as I practiced with one a lot doing mock battle with a Chinese broad sword.
     
  11. glistam

    glistam Member

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    P.B.Walsh, the leaf spear had a hole drilled in it already for this purpose. I believe that most Windlass spearheads come this way. If I were to get a socketed head with no hole, it would not be difficult to use a tungsten carbide bit or other drill-bit that is specifically designed to go through metal (just takes patience). It might even be worth it to add a hole or two for extra strength, and a generous amount of JB Weld might help it stay secure even more (I didn't do this because I wanted it to be removable). It is worth it to carefully shape and sand your shaft until it fits securely without wobbling.
     
  12. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    Ok, thats good then, now off to find a shaft that is at least 7'. Are dowel rods good for this purpose? If not I'll find a tree sapling.
     
  13. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Hickory is good. Canvas micarta is best, but good luck finding a 1 1/8" piece 7' long. I used to use 6' dowels as bo staves, but long dowels are rare.

    John
     
  14. glistam

    glistam Member

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    Your average hardware store dowel rod is going to be pine. Not gonna work, too soft. Like John said, hickory is good if you find it that long (most shovel and axe handles are hickory). If you know a wushu place they often sell 6-9 foot shafts of Chinese Waxwood (Ligustrum lucidum), which is used both for fighting staves and for those classic Chinese spears with the red fur. It's very strong but tends to be a bit "whippy" and therefore suited to that specific style of spear technique. Ash is your classic spear shaft wood from Europe though I don't know offhand where to get shafts that long.
     
  15. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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  16. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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  17. dastardly-D

    dastardly-D Member

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    spear ?

    What about useing a bayonet or some kind of knife with grips taken off down to the tang ? How deep should a tang go and how would you secure it ? Would Gorilla glue hold a tang in place,or what other method would you use ? :confused:
     
  18. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Bad idea.

    The old spears were mostly self ferruled with a metal ferrule that fit over the end of the shaft.

    There is no way to attach a spear-head to a wood shaft by the narrow tang without weakening the shaft, or the blade.
    Or wrapping or reinforcing it with a separate ferrule or wire wrap.
    Which still leaves a weak tang to break.

    Your best bet for a store bought shaft is a hickory or oak handle garden hoe or weed digger.

    But you will have to set your sights lower then a 7' long one.

    One the other hand, you are talking about a spear, not a pike.

    The Roman pilum was decisive in battle for centurys, and the wood handle was only 4' - 5' long.

    Of course, the soft iron speer point was another 1' - 2' long and bent over and tripped you in your own blood pool when you tried to fight with one sticking out of your chest.

    Still?
    Probably the most effective spear ever invented and used in war.

    Much longer pikes are another matter.

    Start here and go there for cheap!
    http://www.amazon.com/Ames-Temper-1941600-Handled-Dandelion/dp/B00004S1Z5

    I keep one in the garage for the yard, and I pity the fool that tried to take it out of my hands by force.

    rc
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  19. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I visited the Randall Knife shop and saw some of their spears.
    Some were on steel conduit shafts, taped or whipped for grip.
    Unfortunately I did not study the method of attachment of the ones with wood shafts.
     
  20. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    Micarta would be nice, but very... very pricy. If had had the money, I would spring for a seven foot peice. The link above has a 7' ash pole for $25 before shipping, probably will go that route. Now needing to deside between a longer hewing shape or the greek style in the links above....

    I honestly didnt think that this thread would get so many responses, thanks ya'll!
     
  21. glistam

    glistam Member

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  22. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    Hmm Hanwei, heard good about them, and it is cheaper.....
     
  23. DeTerminator

    DeTerminator Member

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    Cold Steel Boar Spear

    Today I received the Cold Steel Boar Spear that I had ordered. JShirley had mentioned it in a previous posting, and I had been interested in their spears a few years ago. So, I ordered one off of ebay.

    I must say, I am impressed with it. It seems to be a very formidable weapon. Very heavy duty, and solid. Solid as a rock. Like a bayonet on steroids. I like it's length, too. Not too long, or short, for in the home defense, at least that's my impression.

    Now I want to check out some spears for throwing purposes. I see some videos on YouTube, and they seem to be something else to explore.

    Thanks for this thread. I'm very happen with this spear.
     
  24. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    I was watching Cold Steel's video on that spear and it looked way too big..... am I wrong?
     
  25. DeTerminator

    DeTerminator Member

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    Total length with head is about 7 feet. I was awed by it's massiveness and weight at first, but I don't think that it's too heavy or long. It's not meant for throwing. It has a very formidable feel to it. The length is good for keeping something at bay. The double bladed head is about a foot in length. Very impressive. You don't want to be at the wrong of this spear.
     
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