Speer GD Short Barrel 9mm 124gr +P

[Steve C]

...you have to acknowledge that there are 2 ways to stop an animal....2 legged or 4.

I was told there are only 3 physical ways to stop a person or animal for that matter. 1. Central nervous system interruption. 2. Skeletal destruction 3. Circulatory system depletion.

There is also a host of other psychological reasons both people and animals break off an attack, most related to self preservation.

 

[Mac's Precision]

Steve you are correct. There are 3 ways. I always dismiss the skeletal destruction option as a last resort as it isn't always an effective STOP but may have to be used. But yes...you are correct... 3 ways.

And again...correct, animals, 2 legged or 4 do give up for changes in the level of commitment to fight or flight. Fortunately, most the time human animals aren't all that committed to the fight. Some animals on the other hand commit to the fight...and commit to the death. I witnessed a bear take 2 rounds of .338 Win Mag to the head / neck and it failed to give up. It finally was stopped by rounds delivered to the shoulder and rear hip joint. So in that case blowing the tracks off the tank stopped the charge.

Some animals aren't talking B.S. when they decide to kill you. Lung / bleeding wounds only slow them down a bit. Humans that have lost all concern for self preservation or regard for pain due to the influence of mental instability or drug use may respond to bullet wounds much more like animals. They may take hits and ignore the damage. In that case blowing the tracks off the tank may be the best last resort.

Cheers
Mac.

 

[Mac's Precision]

To get back on course and answer the poster's question:

Yes...both rounds should be fine for your Glock. In most cases "home defense" or short barreled engineered loads incorporate alterations in powder burn rate and or flash modifiers. Most loads aimed for short barrels try to get the most bounce per ounce from barrels shorter than duty guns. Your 4" barrel will be fine running either load.

I have run that same load in my Sig P225 with good results. Your Glock has a similar length barrel.

I personally seek carry ammo based on which loading has the most energy, comes from a reputable manufacture, uses a good quality bullet in a weight that my gun shoots the most accurately. A person needs to test carry ammo extensively to ascertain which combination of bullet weight, speed and pressure works best. Not every load works great in every gun but many loads work acceptably in most guns. I think it is worth the time and money to test a few, off sand bags to pick the true nail driver load. I have some pet loads in each caliber that I like and turn to when asked about specific "Known" good ones.

For example in my Sig P220 Elite Dark I carry Winchester Ranger-T +P 230 grain. It shoots that load very accurately and puts that 230 grain bullet over my chronograph at 990 feet per second. They group VERY well and hit like a slap from the hand of God. They are amazing on knocking down steel plates.

 

[DenaliPark]

Thats you reading into it what you wish to read into it! Marginal represents unreliable, 9mm ball just doesn't deliver the energy necessary to cause the significant blood pressure spike required to instantly incapacitate, a consequence of it's lack of expansion. It's because of this that 9mm Ball is highly overpenetrative, a specific threat that led the NYPD to finally see the light and adopt the 124 gr Gold Dot as the issue ammunition for their G-19's

No responsible professional in 2010 America would advocate for the adoption of 9mm ball as a duty, or self defense load, as it's just as likely to shoot right through it's intended target and into the innocent behind them, just as it did in NYC. For the very same reason, it's a marginal battlefield performer, it just zips through humans without dumping it's energy, again, because it does not expand.

 

[DonRon]

Do you know for a fact what other departments using 9 mm side arms mandate for carry ammunition for their officers?

 

[DonRon]

DonRon...

Certainly all bullets right down to air gun pellets will cause death. I never disputed that aspect of the discussion. There is a vast difference between causing death...and stopping all aggressive action.

All bullets CAN be killers. Not all bullets are good STOPPERS. I don't carry a gun because I want the target to die from lead poisoning... I carry what I carry because I want all aggressive threat activity to STOP ASAP RIGHT NOW. That immediate STOP happens best with high energy that causes the largest volume of circulatory and CNS damage.

.22 LR can be a stopper ....IF the circumstances allow me a precision shot at vital brain locations. Is it my choice of caliber....uh...no. I find it difficult to think that during a violent encounter I am going to get Joe the rag man to pose for a perfect shot. More than likely I am going to have a better chance to get 2-3 shots to center of "available" mass. If that available mass is not A zone hits...I have to take them as they are all I have. I need to dump massive damage to the area available.

Cheers
Mac.

Cheers
Mac.

Permit me to ask you this question. When confronted with a shooting situation just when do you STOP shooting?

 

[widgeon]

ball ammo

apart from our government's signing treaties forbidding the use of expanding rounds, ball ammunition is preferred for military use. this is because if you kill your adversary, you have taken one soldier off the board--but if you wound him, he will require the care of multiple other people.....which weakens you enemy more than killing one soldier.

 

[Mac's Precision]

DonRon...

In my opinion the method of shoot....evaluate, shoot is the best method. Shots should be delivered and then assume the low ready to determine the effect. If the threat is still a threat, deliver additional rounds until the threat ceases to be a threat.

I was trained to put two rounds to center of mass. Evaluate effect. IF the threat has failed to stop. Then deliver two shots again to center of mass and align for a failure to stop head shot. Deliver that failure to stop shot if needed to neutralize the threat.

Cheers
Mac.

 

[AJChenMPH]

Do you know for a fact what other departments using 9 mm side arms mandate for carry ammunition for their officers?

Per an NYPD officer acquaintance of mine: NYPD = Speer GDHP 124gr. +P

Obviously for OPSEC, I'm not going to post his name, but he's a plainclothes officer out of the 5th Precinct in lower Manhattan/Chinatown. And if you Google "NYPD ammunition", you'll see a lot of information (yes, even anecdotal) consistent with what I stated.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I wouldn't bother with the Gold Dot Short Barrel load for your Glock 19. It is designed to expand at lower velocities and may over expand and underpenetrate when fired from your Glock 19. It's not designed for your Glock 19

If you prefer a 124gr +P load, I suggest either Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P or Federal HST 124gr +P, both of which can be purchased in 50 round boxes for less than $30 at http://www.policehq.com/Products/CCI-9GD and http://www.policehq.com/Products/FC-9HST, respectively.

Cheers!