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Speer Gold Dot vs Winchester PDX1 in 9mm

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Ben86, May 24, 2011.

?

Which brand is better in 9mm?

Poll closed Jun 13, 2011.
  1. Winchester PDX1

    15 vote(s)
    23.1%
  2. Speer Gold Dot

    50 vote(s)
    76.9%
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  1. Ben86

    Ben86 Member

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    Are there any reasons why one is better than the other? Should I just buy whichever I can get a better deal on as the performance of both is top notch (both seem to work well in my guns)? The loads I am talking about specifically are the gold dot 124 grain +P load and the winchester pdx1 124 grain +P load.
     
  2. Good&Fruity

    Good&Fruity Member

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    Gold Dot, it's been proven for a long time, and is probably the most widely used 9mm JHP in LE (NYPD).

    That said, the FBI ordered a bunch of the PDX so I woulnd't hesitate to carry that either. But if I had both on the shelf, for the same price, and both worked reliably in my gun, and both shot accurately in my gun, I would go with the Gold Dot.
     
  3. HK Jake

    HK Jake Member

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    Far and away, Speer Gold Dot.
     
  4. JoeMal

    JoeMal Member

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    GDHPs are in all my HD guns
     
  5. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    I've always liked Winchester ammo and have had feeding and set back issues with Gold Dots, though mostly in .45 acp. I keep my 9mm's loaded with Ranger 124gr Partition Gold or 127gr +P+ and have some 135gr PDX1's in .38 spls and 95gr PDX1 in .380 for my P3AT and PPK. Would not hesitate to use the PDX1 in my 9's and they are currently more available and less expensive than Gold Dots.
     
  6. SoulLessGinger

    SoulLessGinger Member

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    Can you explain your reasoning?

    Both are solid performers. Either would be fine, and if there was any advantage to one or the other, it certainly would not be "far and away".

    The PDX1 is very similar to the RangerT rounds. Those are some of the best SD rounds out there.
     
  7. memphisjim

    memphisjim Member

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    i picked gold dots on the tests ive seen they had greatest expansion
    i would consider the ranger 127+p+ but also on a test saw them clog with denim and fail to expand where the gold dot didnt
     
  8. HK Jake

    HK Jake Member

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    It's similar to the Ranger Bonded rounds, but those are nothing like the Ranger-T rounds. They use two completely different bullets. In all honesty, after reviewing the ballistics on Winchester's site, I would not be comfortable carrying the Ranger Bonded rounds.

    As to ballistic testing, Winchester's own site shows both the 124gr +P and the 147gr Ranger Bonded bullets failing nearly all but the bare gelatin tests, and then they are nothing exceptional, although the 124gr +P does show promise in that single bare gelatin test.

    Winchester PDX1 147gr Testing on YouTube

    This video shows the 147gr PDX1 bullet in denim testing; it travels 17.5" in wet newspaper jugs covered with 4 layers of denim and expands to only 0.50" which is abysmal when compared with premium JHPs. In the bare water jugs, the PDX1 expanded to .56" and penetrated to ~17.5" (water test is inexact). It did stay together, so I can't fault that, although I find any rounds penetrating deeper than 15" or 16" to be a bit much. FBI standards say 12"-18," so it does fall into that category perfectly fine. However it still fails in terms of expansion and is wholly underwhelming for a modern JHP.

    Federal Tactical HST 147gr Testing on YouTube

    This video shows the 147gr Tactical HST bullet in similar testing. The first bullet is fired through denim into wet newspaper jugs and penetrates to 16.0," and expands to 0.70," which is phenomenal. The second bullet is fired into bare water jugs where it penetrated from 13" to 16" (water test is inexact) and expands to a whopping 0.75," which is more than Winchester claims their .45 ACP 230gr Ranger-T bullet expands!

    In closing... The PDX1 is a mediocre SD round, especially with so many great options available. I'd never watched that video before today, so I can honestly say that I didn't know the PDX1 was that underwhelming in terms of expansion. Would you rather have similar penetration with .75" of expansion or .56" of expansion? Not to mention the PDX1 costs $25 for a box of 20 whereas the Tactical HST rounds cost $29 for a box of 50, so you could practice and stock much more of it, unless price wasn't an option.

    I hope this helps. :cool:

    P.S. From Winchester's website, "The new Winchester Supreme Elite Bonded PDX1, which was chosen by the FBI as their primary service round, is now available in a full line of popular handgun calibers. The Bonded PDX1 is engineered to maximize terminal ballistics, as defined by the demanding FBI test protocol, which simulates real-world threats. The new Winchester Bonded PDX is offered in 9mm, 40 Smith & Wesson, 45 automatic and .38 special."

    The FBI service round is a bonded 180gr .40 S&W round developed by Winchester, this much is true. However, this round cannot be anything like the .40 S&W Ranger Bonded as that bullet failed testing and failed it miserably. If the FBI saw the results I'm staring at, there is no way they'd accept them, which means the PDX1 (if it is actually the same bullet the FBI uses as Winchester claims it is) 180gr .40 S&W must be exceptionally better than the 9mm testing we just witnessed, as no LEA I've heard of would accept those as their primary duty load after comparing them side by side with the HST, Gold Dot, Ranger-T or DPX.

    I do find it very hard to believe that Winchester would offer the round the FBI uses to the public in free form when their Ranger-T boxes are specifically marked as "Law Enforcement Only," and gun shops are not allowed to sell them to civilians. ...Just a thought.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2011
  9. usp9

    usp9 Member

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    I have, and probably will carry both rounds in the future. Right now I have the PDX1 in my handgun. My other round of choice is the Hornady TAP. One of these three has been loaded in my carry guns for as long as I can remember.
     
  10. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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    Either of them will work just fine if you put them in the right place.
     
  11. maganoo82

    maganoo82 Member

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    I highly recommend hornady critical defense and corbon dpx for cc/pd. Of the two though my vote is for gold dot.

    Happy shooting.
     
  12. KevinB

    KevinB Member

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    Is this actually true? There's obviously no law against owning the Rangers, why would a gun shop deny a sell to a non-LEO? I've bought many a box, no problems.


    To address the OP, I have choosen the GDHP over PDX1 in the past simply due to the price. At least in the shops around here the PDX1, for whatever reason, is much more expensive.
     
  13. ssyoumans

    ssyoumans Member

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    1) Federal 124gr +P HST
    2) Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P
    3) rangers
    4) PDX1
    I've watched a few tests using 147gr loads, and I wouldn't hesitate to use them either. I just have a preference for the 124gr rounds.
    Confirm reliability with 100-200 rounds, then practice, practice, practice.
     
  14. skifast

    skifast Member

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    From what on read on Box o Truth, the Winchester powder results in a redder and thus less blinding flash. Since most gun fights happen in low light, I carry 147gr Ranger Ts.

    As far as expansion and penetration, all the top brand HPs are close enough in performance that arguing about which is best is retarded.
     
  15. catnphx

    catnphx Member

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    I've used both and prefer the Gold Dots. Also, much of my reading for both gel penetration data and actual wound damage data has shown over the years that Gold Dots 124gr +P has done the job ... Massad Ayoob has recommended this ammo too.

    When both real-life wound data and gel tests confirm the ammo works, well, I guess that is why someone like Ayoob would recommend the ammo.

    Good luck on your choice.
     
  16. HK Jake

    HK Jake Member

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    It's not illegal for civilians to own it; it's just a Winchester policy. Gun shops are not supposed to sell this anyone without a law enforcement ID, or Winchester will supposedly stop selling their products to them; Federal and Speer have similar policies for HST and Gold Dot (in the 50rd boxes which state, "Law Enforcement Ammunition").

    Usually, you can get these ammunitions online, and many times the ammo sold online is police surplus. I own multiple boxes of each.
     
  17. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    Either will work fine just as a few dozen other factory loads. Don't get overwhelmed by advertising and internet experts shooting water jugs, phone books, etc.
     
  18. HK Jake

    HK Jake Member

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    Well, the PDX1 wasn't approved by Dr. Roberts, and he was the head of the IWBA; the research he and his group did is pretty much why we are where we are today in terms of premium SD ammunition. That holds more than enough weight for me.
     
  19. sixgunner455

    sixgunner455 Member

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    If you do your job, the bullet will do its job.

    My 9mm is loaded with 124gr Gold Dots, standard pressure. I have killed a deer with that load, in a shorter-barreled 9mm than I have now. I have every confidence in it.
     
  20. firemanstrickland

    firemanstrickland Member

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    Gold Dot, its the best you can get, i shoot all gold dot. Proven time and again
     
  21. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    Well, the PDX1 wasn't approved by Dr. Roberts, and he was the head of the IWBA; the research he and his group did is pretty much why we are where we are today in terms of premium SD ammunition. That holds more than enough weight for me.

    Dr. Roberts and the IWBA are not going to be there if I get in a gunfight and WW PDX1 works are they? The iwba.com domain name is available so that says something about them. 95% of gunfighting is mental and only 5% guns, ammo, and shooting skill. You shouldn't get all wrapped up in what bullet to use and feel that .2 of an inch more expansion or 2" more penetration is going to win or lose the fight.

    I didn't say WW PDX is the best (I've never used it) but it will do the job if you do yours. Are there better rounds? Probably. There are also worse.
     
  22. HK Jake

    HK Jake Member

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    Why would they be there...?

    The need for the IWBA is no longer there, so the funding has dried up. I'm not wrapped up in what bullet to use anymore than you are; a fellow forum member asked me how I came to the conclusion that I did, and I answered his question to the best of my ability.

    A very high percentage of gunfighting is mental, if you've got the training to back it up. "We don't rise to the occasion, we fall to our level of training." This is true of nearly all high stress situations, including sports.

    I never claimed .2" of expansion will win or lose the fight or 2" of penetration will either; I simply stated facts.

    What are you trying to prove here?
     
  23. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    What are you trying to prove here?


    I'm not trying to prove anything other than opinions are like...well you know the rest. We can agree to disagree here.

    A very high percentage of gunfighting is mental, if you've got the training to back it up. "We don't rise to the occasion, we fall to our level of training." This is true of nearly all high stress situations, including sports

    We do agree on this point however.
     
  24. Mr. S

    Mr. S Member

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    I would choose Gold Dots of the two simply because the Gold Dots can be easily found in 50 round LE boxes for not much more than the PDX1 in 20 round boxes.
     
  25. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

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    BOTH

    Why limit yourself to one? Get whatever is cheap when you're shopping and stock up ... both are bonded modern HP designs formulated to do the same exact thing, penetrate clothing, open up, and penetrate to ~12" of ballistics gel
    In fact, almost ALL duty-type HP or other expanding design ammo in the common duty calibers is designed to do exactly that ... so what matters is your skill under pressure and reliability in your chosen defensive weapon.

    Your exact bullet style matters a whole hell of a lot less than reliability and personal performance ... stop wasting time with the little things
     
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