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SPEER Grand Slam Bullets - Is It Just Me?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Garandimal, May 4, 2019.

  1. Garandimal

    Garandimal Member

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    Like'em.

    Before getting into reloading, and then the introduction of Federal Premium ammo, used the ole Dual-core Grand Slams back in the day.

    Then migrated to a combination of SPEER Hot-Cor and NOSLER Partitions for load development/range fodder/hunting as they tend to shot the same.

    WP-20190426-16-24-05-Pro-50-R.jpg


    Now the Grand Slam is a "Cup-n-Core", using the SPEER Hot-Core process with a three-part Lead alloy in the same tapered/fluted jacket.

    WP-20190428-14-57-19-Pro-50-crop.jpg

    ...and they are no longer Premium priced.
    ($0.22/pop w/ factory rebate)

    So have gone back to them for both my .270 Win/150 gr. and new 6.5x55/140 gr. loads.

    At muzzle velocities of ~ 2800 fps (in the .270, have not loaded the 6.5x55 yet), they are not over-stressed and seem to perform like the old two-core bullets - accurate with good expansion and penetration.


    So, am I alone on this bullet, or do others here have experience w/it?




    GR
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
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  2. sage5907

    sage5907 Member

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    Years ago I used a lot of GrandSlam bullets in my rifles, 25, 27 and 30 caliber. My favorite was the 165 grain in my 30-06 and I used it on several hunts in Colorado. They were really accurate. When I run out of 120 grain HotCor bullets for my 25-06 I plan on buying the 120 grain GS because flat base bullets work good in a 25-06. I have used Nosler and Berger premium bullets but I like Speer and Sierrra cup & core bullets a lot better. It makes more sense to spend around 30 cents for a Speer or Sierra than 70 cents for one of the premium bullets and the Speer and Sierra cup & core bullets perform just as well for deer hunting. That way I can target practice and shoot steel targets with my hunting loads and not feel stupid about the cost.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
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  3. CarJunkieLS1

    CarJunkieLS1 Member

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    For Speer bullets I shoot the Hot Cor and if available in the caliber I'm shooting I go for the Speer Gold Dot.
     
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  4. Garandimal

    Garandimal Member

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    Like the Hot-Cor, but find that the thin jacket tends not to support good expansion, and instead has a tendency to peel back.




    GR
     
  5. CarJunkieLS1

    CarJunkieLS1 Member

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    The Gold Dot doesn't technically have a jacket, because they are plated jackets sort of. They use some kind of proprietary process to molecularly bond the jacket to the core making it impossible for jacket core seperation. And I've tried and tried and tried to get a fusion or gold dot bullet to fail and they just haven't.
     
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  6. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    The HotCore’s are intended to “peel back”.
    40yrs ago, the classic broad mushroom expansion was considered ideal for light thin skinned big game (ie: deer). The ideal was for it to stop under the hide on the far side. The GrandSlam represented a “more controlled” expansion for the likes of elk, moose and black bear in the smaller calibers (.30 and under) for deeper penetration. They too work as intended.
    With .338 and larger, the GrandSlam was Speer’s answer to the Nosler Partitions. They are still excellent

    I’ve never used a GrandSlam, but have used many HotCores through the years and have gravitated back to the HorCores with Remington exiting the component market or otherwise pricing themselves out.

    My favorite bullet for deer with my .338/06 is the Speer 200gr HotCore. For elk, moose, or bear ($$$$$ hunts), it’s the 210gr Nosler Partition.
    For my .257Weatherby, the 120gr BT HotCore is amazing.
    Out to 500yds, it makes the 6.5Creed look like the wimp it is...
    Costs less to shoot too! I bought 16lbs of WC860 for $80 in 2005. Still have 12+lbs... feed it to the .257Wby and .300RUM...
    Coyote #1 took a Speer 130 @3100+ from .270. #2, a 90gr HotCor from .243 at 3,150fps. No detectable entry/exit. Same shot placement, within 10feet of same spot, shot out my kitchen window... as was the buck in my avatar...
     

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    Last edited: May 5, 2019
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  7. DM~

    DM~ Member

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    The "answer" that never was and still isn't!!

    I've had .338 GranSlams fail on moose, never had ANY Partition fail peroid!

    DM
     
  8. Random 8

    Random 8 Member

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    I've been using the Grand Slam in a medium for caliber application on large whitetail for several years after they discontinued the Mag Tip. 145 gr .280 Rem. Every one has been dead reliable, and the bullet was easy to find an accurate load for. I think the blunted metplat does something for terminal effect on lighter game also. I'm sure somebody will expound on the theory behind this, I don't need to as I've seen blunt/FP/RN bullets perform better on deer for years and I'm a believer. I use them religiously if BC/long range is not a consideration for moderate velocity rounds.
     
  9. DM~

    DM~ Member

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    Well, the bottom line is, just about ANY bullet will work on deer sized game, you sure don't need a GS or NP to kill a deer.

    GS was compared to an NP, there is no comparison between those two.

    DM
     
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  10. hillman23

    hillman23 Member

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    I have some 250 grain 338 grand slams I've only just begun load development with for deer and elk. I'd love to hear your tales as I don't yet have an opinion on them yet.

    PS- I'm not aiming to derail the topic. Let me know if a PM is more appropriate.
     
  11. Goosey

    Goosey Member

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    The Grand Slam is what they use in some of Federal's blue box loads, so there's a ton of people with many Grand Slam experiences.
     
  12. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    Never said they were equal, just Speers offering! (Answer) Reading comprehension is golden!
    You’ll note I referred to the superior 210 Nosler Partition. Also stated I’d never used a GrandSlam, but a LOT of HotCores...

    I HAVE had a Nosler Partition fail. Killed deer 75lb yearling doe, but deer ran 250yds, and hid in a ditch next to a creek. 140gr 7mm. Recovered bullet. Base penetrated ~20”. Friend used one from same box of 50 handloads to take down a 7x7 bull elk; core completely penetrated. go figure...!
     
  13. sage5907

    sage5907 Member

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    I agree and I still like that method today. A bullet that expends all of it's energy inside the deer and stops under the skin on the far side is a perfect hunting bullet for deer. Some of the so called controlled expansion bullets that speed through the deer and kick up dirt on the far side and the hunter ends up with a running deer. I like the sound of a HotCor hitting the shoulder of a deer and to see the animal fall immediately. In my experience the HotCor stays together better and penetrates better than most cup & core bullets. That's why they stay together and end up under the skin on the far side.
     
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  14. DM~

    DM~ Member

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    I never said you said it! You are right, (Answer) Reading comprehension is golden!

    As for failures, I guess it all depends on what a person calls a "failure"... 20" of penetration and the base held together???

    To ME, a bullet fails when it comes completely apart, with the core leaving the jacket, many times breaking into many pieces... I've seen most cup/core bullets do this, and the GS were no better in this department.

    I like that the nose blows off a Nosler Partition and the base keeps on penetrating, "almost" always giving an exit wound. In my hunting career, that's about the perfect hunting bullet as I prefer an exit wound.

    DM
     
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  15. Garandimal

    Garandimal Member

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    Regarding the current production monolithic lead core GS...

    What appears to happen, when you over-stress it by "blowing the nose off'- is that as the thicker jacket supports the mushroom, instead of peeling back like the thinner jacketed Hot-Cor, it pries open enough the break the jacket/core bond and Cannelure lock.

    This can allow the jacket to shed it's core.

    Since ~ 2800 fps impact velocity seems to be the ceiling on this bullet (will test further) and performs perfectly at that velocity, down to at least 2200 fps and maybe lower, am rethinking loading it any hotter

    IMR 4831/4350 will produce 2820 fps from a 22" Bbl'ed .270 Win and 2740 fps from a 24" Bbl'ed 6.5X55 with 150/140 gr. GS bullets respectively, and have a 2200 fps velocity range of 275/300 yds.

    And, w/ a 200 yd zero - drop at 300 is ~ 8", and energy over 1500 lb-ft, for both.
    (.270 scoped/ 6.5x55 aperture sight)

    Hunting range.




    GR
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
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  16. hillman23

    hillman23 Member

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    I appreciate the instructive experiences you all have shared. If I find a load that shoots well, I'll let you know how they perform on deer and elk (if I'm lucky!)
     
  17. Garandimal

    Garandimal Member

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    I think that the older, hard base core GS arrested the prying action, along with the cannelure acting as a weak link in the jacket, and everything pinned in with the shear lock holding the base core. So lighter/faster bullets with shorter shanks and higher impact velocities held together unless pulverized by hard bone.

    The new GS bullet needs to rely on a longer shank, and lower forces when the mushroom reaches the cannelure to stay together.

    So now, the heavier-for-caliber bullet is the choice, instead of the lighter ones that have been traditional for the GS.

    Don't abuse'em - and they seem to work as advertised.


    What cartridge are you loading for?

    .338/ 250 gr. is an SD 0.313 bullet. May not open very well on small deer, but should be fine on hogs, mulies, and Minnesota white-tail, and elk if you keep it away from the femurs.




    GR
     
  18. hillman23

    hillman23 Member

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    I'm shooting a 338 win mag and I'd expect to have loads for the 250 gr GS in the 2650 fps range (+/-). I'd guess that's probably a pretty good place to be with most cup and core bullets? Blacktails aren't huge so we'll see how well they open up on those critters. Hoping to miss elk femurs no matter what slug I'm sending down range. Tends to damage too many good steaks. I have other bullets I'm working up loads for as well, including some I've had excellent field experience with, so I guess it's a wait and see with the GS anyway. If it shoots well, I'll give it a chance.
     
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  19. Iroquois

    Iroquois Member

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    The 165 gr GS in 30 cal has been very good in my .308 and 30-06. I am in Grandimals camp, IMR 4831 and 4350 under 2800 FPS perform for me extremely well. Granted my experience has been on deer only so I won’t speak on larger animals.
     
  20. DM~

    DM~ Member

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    I'm NOT disagreeing with everything you said, BUT... What jacket/core bond???

    There is NO bonding, at least not any more than anyone else's cup/core bullet. Some people think "hot core" = bonding, it just isn't true...

    True "bonding" of bullets is a completely separate process and GS bullets are not bonded.

    Anyway, I always love discussions of bullets and how they work...

    DM
     
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  21. sage5907

    sage5907 Member

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    I'm not sure this is entirely true. The commonly produced cup & core bullet like a Sierra GameKind or a Speer Boattail just takes a piece of lead wire of the proper diameter and length, inserts it into a jacket and shapes it to the proper length and contour. The HotCor process is completely different in that molten lead is poured into the jacket and shaped by the machine to the proper length and contour. The hot molten lead adheres to the copper without any voids. Other manufacturers use an electrochemical process of attaching the core to the jacket which is like copper plating the jacket to the lead. Speer found out years ago that the molten lead process was superior to the commonly produced method in keeping the lead in the jacket upon impact. The so called premium bullets with the electrochemecal bonding process like the Nosler AccuBond use very thick jackets to keep the lead in the jacket upon impact. Is it their bonding process that keeps the bullet together or the thick jacket? If the GS had the same jacket as the AccuBond and used the HotCor process to insert the lead it would probably stay together just as good as the AccuBond. The HotCor is a poor man't bonded bullet just like the 270 Winchester is a poor man's magnum rifle.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  22. DM~

    DM~ Member

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    Your research is flawed... In my past life, I designed and mfg'd bonded core bullets, and from MY experience, using the hot core process, is just a better way for "Speer" to measure out cores. It does nothing to hold the core to the jacket.

    Take a "true" bonded core bullet, cut/hacksaw it in half lengthways and try to separate the core from the jacket with two pairs of pliers. IF it's bonded, you can't!!

    Do the same with a GS, hot core, or any other cup/core bullet and get back to me with your results...

    DM
     
  23. double bogey

    double bogey Member

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    I would think a "bonded" bullet would have the alloy core soldered to the jacket, if that is the proper word describing the process. I think most cup and cores are swaged into the jacket, or something similar. And then there are "interlocks", that use the shape of the jacket to retain the core, or part of it. I am not a bullet mfg, but this is my thinking, so it may not be entirely accurate.
     
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  24. double bogey

    double bogey Member

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    I would like to hear from mfg's to describe their "bonding" process.
     
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  25. DM~

    DM~ Member

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    Me too...

    DM
     
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