'Splain to me

[Patocazador]

As Ricky Ricardo used to say, 'splain to me why bottle-necked rifle cases can be reloaded with a 2-die set but bottle-necked pistol cases like the .357 Sig need a 3-die set.
Is it just the shortness of the case doesn't allow for enough room for both the neck expander plus sizing the case?

 

[kcofohio]

In general, pistol brass gets a bell mouth before seating the bullet. Helps to keep the shorter bullet straighter during seating. And I suppose mainly because pistol bullets need less retaining tension then rifle, which use slower burning powders.
I'm sure there is a better 'plaination.

 

[reddog81]

straight walled cases need separate steps for sizing the body and expanding the mouth. Bottle-necked cases can use a sizing die that sizes case and then uses a button to expand the case mouth on the reverse stroke without effecting the re-sized case.

 

[edwardware]

1) Yes, you're right. Also. . .

2) When loading jacketed rifle bullets, there's less need to flare the mouth before seating, so basic rifle die sets don't include a flare die, but. . .

Many reloaders, and most cast bullet reloaders, use flare/expand dies like the Lyman M series.

 

[Grumulkin]

As Ricky Ricardo used to say, 'splain to me why bottle-necked rifle cases can be reloaded with a 2-die set but bottle-necked pistol cases like the .357 Sig need a 3-die set.
Is it just the shortness of the case doesn't allow for enough room for both the neck expander plus sizing the case?

I think you make a good point. IF they made straight wall sizing dies with an expander ball, I would think a 2 die set would work. That said, I've never made dies so maybe there is some complicating factor I'm unaware of.

A 458 Lott case is plenty long and uses a 3 die set and a 22 Hornet is quite short and uses a 2 die set so there being room for an expander ball probably isn't the reason.

 

[reddog81]

FWIW, you can buy RCBS 2 die sets for .357. My original answer (post #3) was written without a good job of reading that you were specifically asking about .357 Sig.

 

[JimKirk]

My 357 SIG(RCBS) dies are 2 die set .... They work just fine !!!!

 

[Patocazador]

My 357 SIG(RCBS) dies are 2 die set .... They work just fine !!!!

Thanks, I have a Lee and a Redding set. They are both 3-die sets. I was unaware that RCBS made a 2-die set. That answers my question to a degree but I wonder why 3-die sets are in the majority.

 

[wrench459]

I don't reload .357 sig but from what I understand it's a pita.

 

[Patocazador]

I don't reload .357 sig but from what I understand it's a pita.

I guess I've got a thing for bottle-necked pistol cartridges. I load for .357 Sig, .357 Auto Mag, and .357/.44 Bain & Davis. I don't find them to be a pain. Their performance would make up for an extra step, if necessary. I will probably still load with the extra steps because I size with a .40 S&W carbide die first when doing the .357 Sig.

 

[jmorris]

As noted pistol dies generally don’t include an expander on the decapping pin stem like rifle dies do.



That’s not really the entire story though. 2 die rifle sets also don’t include any way to get powder into the case. So, if you include a “powder die” into a rifle set you are now at 3, just like a pistol set. #1 for sizing/depriming (expand for rifle), #2 for charging the case (expand for pistol) and #3 for seat and crimp, unless you want to do that in two steps, then you have to add yet another die.

 

[Ireload2]

I have a set of .30 Luger dies by RCBS. They are a 2 die set.

The expander decapper is a special design with a very short expander to fit the limited space below the case neck in this very short bottleneck case.

 

[Jack B.]

With pistols I usually have 4 dies. I buy a separate die for crimping. My die set for 480Ruger came with 4 dies.

 

[Ireload2]

Reloading by definition originated as a means to recycle a valuable resource to save money. The most economical die sets possible are part of the effort to economize. When other factors are involved the number of dies used may proliferate.
The following may be used to improve convenience, reduce labor, time or improve the quality of the reloaded ammo.
1. Specialized expanders
2. Specialized crimpers
3. Powder compression dies

The total number of dies are only limited by imagination and utility if not limited by concern for economy.
Some of the additional die types permit higher rates of production with progressive machines and have little to no application when a single stage press is used.

 

[reddog81]

Heck, RCBS has a 7 stage progressive press.

 

[Ireload2]

RCBS will sell you one with even more stations if you give them enough money.
Just like cars, speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

Heck, RCBS has a 7 stage progressive press.