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Sportsmans Warhouse--Anti CCW instructor

Discussion in 'Legal' started by phorvick, Mar 31, 2006.

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  1. phorvick

    phorvick Member

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    I today (March 31st) received an e-mail from Sportmans Warehouse in Fargo that the chain has made a corporate decsion that they no longer will allow CCW instructors to conduct classes in their stores.

    Sportsmans Warehouse is a national chain that has a tremendous selection of handguns in inventory and now have taken the official position that CCW instructors apparently are too dangerous and they do not want them in their stores.

    Here is the exact e-mail text:

    ---
    There has been a change to our corporate policy regarding Concealed Carry Classes. I was informed that we are no longer able to do Concealed Carry Classes here at Sportsmans Warehouse. Feel free to call so that we can discuss this further.
     
  2. StopTheGrays

    StopTheGrays Member

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    It might be that it added too much to their insurance to make it worth while anymore. If they added "and we are happy about this decision because CCW is unsafe for civilians" then I would say it was anti-CCW instructor.
     
  3. auschip

    auschip Member

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    Can you point out where it said that in the email you included? Anywhere at all where it might have even come close to saying that, because all I saw was that they no longer were going to allow CCW classes in their stores. :scrutiny:
     
  4. phorvick

    phorvick Member

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    Well, of course that was some hyperbole on my part.

    I left out part of the prior conversations with the store. I had a class there on March 25th...very well attended. Local store is thrilled to get that many into the store. I was told then that "due to liability concerns" the corporate management was reconsidering allowing such classes to be held.

    I had discussed the liability concern and essentially is was that if a person got a permit as a result of doing the classwork at SW, and later "something happened", that the store could be sued.

    I suggested that if that were a real concern that it could be obviated by hiring the instructor as a part time employee thereby getting covered under the general liability policy the store carries; and/or have the participants sign a waiver that they were aware that the instructor was NOT an employee of the store and that the store was not taking any responsibility for content etc.

    It seems pretty clear to me that to be consistent, the store should also ban any cooking classes (food poisoning), archery safety classes, fly casting classes, etc etc etc.

    It also seems fairly clear to me that some lawyer or insurance company has scared the management into this anti-ccw class policy.

    If you believe in the slippery slope concept, it could be applied here. If we can't get CCW stopped, let's make it impossible to conduct classes anywhere by refusing to insure such activities. I feel that it is both short sighted as a business policy, and very ominous for the CCW instructor community, as the same "liability" argument can be used in any store facility...or any place that might otherwise allow such classes to be taught. (Also keep in mind here that the specific classes being taught by me and others in this store do NOT involve any shooting activitiy of any kind, nor do the participants have any firearms in the class.)
     
  5. AJ Dual

    AJ Dual member

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    Their insurance company put the squeeze on them. Unfortunately, the Insurance co. has lots of power over them. Even if Sportsman's Warehouse had the stones to tell their insurance carrier to go to hell, It caould have a severe impact on their banking, credit, and cash flow.

    Just like you or I can't lease a car or get a loan without insurance, businesses can't get banking without coverage either.

    And any aggressive trial lawyer will tell you that liability waivers, no matter how strongly they're worded, are ultimately just to keep potential plaintiffs from thinking to seek representation and suing in the first place.

    I don't think it's a conspiracy, just a bottom line mentality, and another example of why tort reform is needed in this country.
     
  6. pete f

    pete f Member

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    I was just there and asked and the store manager at the Coon Rapids store said it was a legal decision they will be happy to carry free literature just like it was a guide service or hunter ed. he said they were still arguing over allowing hunter ed in the store. he said legal dept was too worried about being named as part of the suit
    he said they were tlaking about making a community room and allowing that to be used by boyscouts, hunter ed and more and that by bringing more people in that might give them and out in saying we only supply a community room


    For what it is worth, finding a community room to teach CCW is not hard at all juat ask around at the park adn rec board or the library.
     
  7. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    I hate to see people buckle to court fear though. I'm sorry we can't sell guns anymore, too much of a legal liability. Want to buy some whiteout? I need to see proof that you're of age, we could be sued. Dodge viper? yeah we had to put a speed limiter for 70mph in them though. You know lawyers. Want to buy some cold medicine, gotta write down your D/L number just in case.

    I try to not shop with people who will give in to their legal paranoia, it gets old and its only going to get worse I'm afraid.
     
  8. phorvick

    phorvick Member

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    It was noted (correctly of course!) that..."For what it is worth, finding a community room to teach CCW is not hard at all juat ask around at the park adn rec board or the library."

    Yes, today. But, they have insurance carriers and lawyers also. Make no mistake, this is an assault on gun owners no matter how it is rationalized by the corporation.
     
  9. xd9fan

    xd9fan Member

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    I will continue to shop there, the Coon Rapids store gun staff are wonderful. The prices just cant be beat.
     
  10. phorvick

    phorvick Member

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    I have heard back from their corporate offices. The President of the company will revisit this decision with their insurer.

    I will post any updates.
     
  11. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    I believe "our insurance company" gets blamed for a great many corporate policies. Curiously, no one ever mentions the actual name of "our insurance company."

    Frankly, I think it's a lie.
     
  12. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    Next time we should ask for the name of their Insurance company. And let them know how we feel. We should also inform the SW that if we will stop shopping there due to their using this insurerer.
     
  13. Cuda

    Cuda Member

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    I will continue to shop at SW.. Why would you want to boycott them because they don't offer ccw classes. Does that really hurt you?
    If you want to hurt someone boycott the insurance company. It seems to me they are the bad guys..


    C
     
  14. Monkeyleg

    Monkeyleg Member

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    That's right, folks. Just keep buying guns from the discount chains because you can save a few bucks.

    Your local independent shop is probably already paying high premiums to offer services and merchandise that the discount stores won't.

    And, when the discount stores have driven the small shops out of business, you'll be puppets on a string for whatever new corporate policies the discount chains decide to implement.
     
  15. NCP24

    NCP24 Member

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    Excellent advice, we should always support our local business owners.
     
  16. stevelyn

    stevelyn Member

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    I buy ammo and other stuff from the Sportsman's Warehouse, but my guns will be bought from pet dealers.
     
  17. mike_bullet

    mike_bullet Member

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    big vs. the little guy

    I beg to differ. I have received far superior service at sportsman’s warehouse then I ever had at any specialty gun shops. And when these big box retailers can sell the same product at 10 and yes sometimes 20% discount I will buy there. After all it's my money I worked hard for it and I intend to keep as much as I can.
     
  18. DunedinDragon

    DunedinDragon Member

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    To each their own. Personally, I'll spend a few dollars more and deal with policies that are dictated by some no stones, brain-dead beauracrat who doesn't have the slightest clue about guns and gun law. It may not be in $$$$, but you're still paying a price.

    You know, there actually was a time when there were small computer shops where hobbyists hung around, shared stories, found people with considerable expertise they could draw from and helped each other with different computer problems. I guess we saw where that went, huh?????
     
  19. dpesec

    dpesec Member

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    You know it could just be the insurance company. Remember, when suing people, you name everybody. The person, the gun maker, the ammo maker, the store that sold them, the instructors and the place where the classes were held.
    You then go for the deepest pockets.
    While the insurance company might not have said stop it, the cost of the insurance could have made it no longer profitable.
     
  20. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    Soybomb:

    Have you been able to shop with many companies that don't carry insurance, consult an attorney, or comply with federal, state, and local laws? Just curious.
     
  21. mrmeval

    mrmeval Member

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    It's their right to choose to allow them or not.
     
  22. Trip20

    Trip20 Member

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    :rolleyes: Thanks, Mr. Obvious. :neener:

    No one is debating whether or not the store has the right to make such a decision.

    It's a crap policy for both insurer and insured. Those of you willing to shop at SW after this decision, just to save a meesly 10%, should really ask yourselves how much your gun rights are worth. You're selling them out for chump change.

    Send them a message.
     
  23. phorvick

    phorvick Member

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    I continue to have contact with the coroporate offices of SW and expect them to modify or rescind that decision. I hope for an answer in the next few weeks. (today is 4-10-06)
     
  24. WayneConrad

    WayneConrad Member

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    Of the 3 gun stores closest to me, Sportsman's is the only one that does not require you to be unarmed while shopping. I don't think I'll throw that baby out with the bathwater.
     
  25. CAS700850

    CAS700850 Member

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    Okay, wait a minute here. We're calling for a boycott of SW because the corporation isn't going to allow a non-employee to come in and teach CCW. Period. Do we really expect SW to undertake the liability, and yes, it is a real concern, for someone over whom they have no control. SW has no control over the content of the class, but we expect them to undertake the risk of being named in a lawsuit over what these instructors teach. It is a legit concern. CCW holder shoots someone, gets sued. Victim also sues instructor and SW for improperly teaching the CCW holder, or CCW holder interpleads the instructor and SW for incorrectly teaching him. At the least, SW undertakes the expense of getting themselves out of the suit. Sorry, I can't fault SW for this one. I cannot fault them for not wanting to assume the risk over something for which they have no control.
     
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