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Springer thru the Wringer Again!

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by 1911Tuner, May 12, 2004.

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  1. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Well...I finally got a failure to return to battery this fine spring day.

    Snagged the stepson early and headed for the range with one GI Springfield and over a case of PMC ball. (Lot # 45A-388)

    Chronographed the stuff today. 822 fps average for 10 shots...none fell
    below 800 fps with extreme spread very close. Good lot of ammo. I
    hated to shoot it all.:p But research is research...and I kept the brass.

    Same deal as before. Shoot it until it's too hot to hold and stick it in the water. Same bucket...different water. Drew another crowd...bigger crowd
    this time. Questions like: "Dayumm son! (Southern folks say dayumm)
    What have ya got against that pistol???"

    Somewhere around the 750-800 round mark...and close to bath time...the
    gun choked. Failure to return to battery. Cleared the stoppage and fired
    the rest of the magazine. halfway through the next magazine, it choked again. I gave it a bath and reloaded the 2 mags. I decided to let it go dead cold before proceeding. I also decided to put a little oil into the rails and let it trickle down. My hand was about numb by this point, so I turned the remainder of the exercise over to the lad.

    He fired both magazines without a stoppage...reloaded and fired them again. No stoppages. The third time again produced no stoppages, so the
    pistol was fired to the boilin' point, and dunked into the water.

    The rest of the ammo went downrange like grease thru a goose...and we
    picked up the brass and came home.

    Too tired to detail-strip the gun right now. I've got an appointment to
    have the whole thing magnafluxed Friday at lunchtime. I'm keenly interested in seeing if there's anything that's close to crash and burn.
    I don't see any point in another thousand rounds unless ya'll hold my feet to the fire....but it might be a week or two. I'm slap wore OUT! :p

    Cheers!

    Tuner
     
  2. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

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    HAH! I KNEW those Springers were no good. THEY ACTUALLY NEED SOME OIL!!

    wildalaskaareyoutakingnotes?
     
  3. BigG

    BigG Member

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    Dayumm, Tuner! You ever think of marketing your service to Underwriter's Laboratories? ;)
     
  4. ScottS

    ScottS Member

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    Many probably already know this, but for those that don't, what 1911Tuner is doing is very close to the original Army acceptance tests for the 1911.
    Just think how much better it would have performed with a FLGR? :)

    Scott
     
  5. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Quotes

    Riley said:

    HAH! I KNEW those Springers were no good. THEY ACTUALLY NEED SOME OIL!!

    Yeah...Bummer, ain't it? :p
    ____________________________

    Big said:

    Dayumm, Tuner! You ever think of marketing your service to Underwriter's Laboratories?

    Well...I keep hopin' that the Springfield reps who monitor these forums will
    offer to send me a few pistols and 10,000 rounds of ammo to perform more
    torture tests.:D So far, no word...:(
    ____________________________


    ScottS said:

    Many probably already know this, but for those that don't, what 1911Tuner is doing is very close to the original Army acceptance tests for the 1911.

    Bingo! I'm bein' tougher on this gun than the Ordnance Department was.
    So far, it would have pretty much held its own except for the extractor. It
    didn't break, but it just didn't act right...Later on, I may put it into one of my
    beaters to see how it holds up over the long, rough road that I travel with a beater. It's got its work cut out for it, though. If I don't break it, it ain't
    likely that anybody can. :D

    I detail-stripped the pistol and found not one thing wrong. The magnaflux test will tell the tale...
     
  6. 45R

    45R Member

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    Can you do that with a Glock please :D

    Edit to add: I've never seen someone put so much ammo through a polymer gun that it was too hot to shoot :)
     
  7. Silent Bob

    Silent Bob Member

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    "Can you do that with a Glock please:D"

    Uhmmmm... yeah?
     
  8. sturmruger

    sturmruger Member

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    Conclusions

    Would it be safe to say that the SA Mil Spec might be a good first 1911?? I don't have any .45s at the moment, but have been thinking about buying a Springfield for a long time now. From all of the tests you have run it sounds like you do not regreat buying a Springfield.
     
  9. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    First 1911

    Sturmruger asked:

    Would it be safe to say that the SA Mil Spec might be a good first 1911??

    Howdy sturmruger,

    Based on what I've seen from this particular gun, I'd say yes. I've also
    gotten similar reports locally that pretty much lead to the same conclusion.

    Speaking strictly on the functional question....firing, extracting, ejecting and returning to battery....the gun is reliable enough to carry. The issue of
    investment cast and MIM small parts lends another side to the reliability
    question and I'd have to add that if the gun is to be used a lot AND carried
    for the purposes of preserving the ol' hide...the small parts should be upgraded to the best that you can buy. While it may not even be necessary, given that everything has held up well thus far...it's still
    a point to consider. I would upgrade it...and will...but that's just me.

    If the gun is to be primarily carried and used only moderately, I'd say that
    it would likely be fine as is, with the possible exception of the extractor
    and the OEM magazine spring, which functioned well in the initial test, but was a little light for my tastes. I replaced it with an 11-pound Wolff spring.

    Luck!

    Tuner
     
  10. sturmruger

    sturmruger Member

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    I think when I buy a 1911 it will mostly be used to shoot plates, and maybe some small game. It will most likely be shot less then 1,000 rounds per year. If I decide to start carrying a 1911 I think I would opt for a slightly smaller barrel.


    When you put the pistol in the water to cool it down what did you do after you took it out of the water? Did you blow it out, wipe it down, or did you just let it drip dry??
     
  11. Plinkerton

    Plinkerton Member

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    I think it would melt... :D
     
  12. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Water Torture

    sturmruger asked:

    When you put the pistol in the water to cool it down what did you do after you took it out of the water? Did you blow it out, wipe it down, or did you just let it drip dry??

    Gave it a couple of shakes, slapped another magazine in it and commenced
    firin'. :cool:
     
  13. cameramonkey

    cameramonkey Member

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    Hey Tuner, nice job. What are a list of MIM parts that you would have replaced on a Springfield Mil-Spec or Loaded model if someone were to seriously consider using it for personal protection/carry? Is there any other things that should be done to the gun (trigger job, barrel throat, guide rod, etc?).
     
  14. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    re:

    Howdy cameramonkey, and welcome to The High Road.

    The GI Springer came with a pretty good trigger right out of the box. The
    disconnect was well-prepped...better than any production gun that I've
    seen in the Entry Level class. I did a little extra prep on the sear and
    hammer hooks, and on the King's trigger that I swapped out...and wound
    up with a nice, clean 5-pound break...and kept the hammer hooks at stock
    length to boot. Bonus!

    As near as I've seen thus far, the MIM hammer, sear, and disconnect have held up well. I'll replace them when the test is over, but for the man who doesn't plan to shoot a lot AND carry the gun, those parts would probably
    be fine. If the gun will see heavy use, I'd replace the sear and disconnect
    at the very least. The hammer will probably hold up. The magnaflux check
    at the end will tell more.

    The slidestop is a casting...though some reports on the GI Springfields
    have MIM stops, so you may get either one. I'll replace that for sure.
    The grip safety is another part that'll likely be durable as is. That's
    the one part that's well-suited to MIM or investment casting, although
    there have been some scattered reports of Kimber grip safeties failing,
    which is a vendor issue. I'll replace the grip safety...just because I can.

    The thumb safety is another part that I'll replace. The OEM part seems to
    be well-made and fitted/finished...but I'm a paranoiac when it comes to
    the "Murphy Factor".

    I've already replace the firing pin stop with a GI Colt part, mainly because it
    was a light press-fit in the slide. The OEM part may be a well-finished
    casting or it may be machined barstock. I can't tell by lookin' at it, and
    I can't bring myself to shear it in half to check. Maybe later, if I get bored.

    I don't car for the titanium firing pin, and will replace that as soon as the test is over. Personal preference. The stock pin is holding up fine. The
    spring is already gone in favor of a standard Nowlin spring.

    The extractor is barstock, but it was sized for a 9mm, and din't hold tension
    very well. I put in a tweaked Brown Hardcore just to avoid any aggravation
    during the tests. I replaced the Hardcore yesterday with a C&S spring
    steel extractor for the final phase. I wanted to evaluate their extractor,
    and a member sent it to me as a gift.(Thanks Andrew17!) The hook was
    out of spec at .042 inch, and I had to take it down to .035 to get it to work,
    and radiused the bottom of the hook a little. Goodbye warranty!

    Stand by for the Ultimate Test...Probably Tuesday.

    Tuner
     
  15. tex_n_cal

    tex_n_cal Member

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    I have one of the SA "Mil-Spec" semi-enhanced models in .38 Super. I call it semi-enhanced as the army never bought .38 Supers, 3 dot sights, or ramped barrels:p

    It monotonously reliable, regardless of what you feed it. I have shot it with .38 ACP's, which is the same cartridge as the Super, just loaded subsonic for older guns - functioning was perfect. It's eaten any .38 Super load without complaint, and after I dropped in a 9x23 SA Barrel, it ran fine with that hot load, too.

    I may have to break down and let Tuner put on Bomars and doll it up some, cause it's a hoot!
     
  16. sm

    sm member

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    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    I was asked to test a Keltec P-11.

    I ran a case ( 500 rds) in one sitting. It didn't fail, It didn't melt. Hard part was keeping the mags loaded up. I only had four personal, I borrowed 4 more. I've run a 1K rds in one weekend trying to tear it up.

    I have even poured that fine sand like in ash cans , still ran. Same sand I poured over 1911s...these ran as well.

    Glock 26 I ran almost 400 rds( ran out of ammo) through in one sitting , same deal. The Glock 26 is the only Glock that seems to like me. From my sharing in other posts , they usually don't like me.

    Hey - folks said test, dared, or I was curious... I did. Educational. :)
     
  17. cameramonkey

    cameramonkey Member

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    Thanks Tuner. You sure seem to know the 1911.
     
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